A	D	ISKCON	50	The Gurukul (Hare Krishna Boarding Schools) Court Case	We will not concern ourselves here with the motives of those who either support or are against the lawsuit. We have simply stepped back and taken a dispassionate look at what the complaint actually states. We will lay out the facts, and let the devotees make up there own minds as to whether the lawsuit is beneficial...	/Articles/2000/08/00077.html	/ISKCON/WHTTHK/images/children.jpg			width="300" height="211"	center	gurukul, law suit,Hare Krishna,Bhaktivedanta Swami,Prabhupada, Bhagavad Gita	<p>The filing of the $400 million child-abuse lawsuit has generated much rhetoric from both those opposed and in support of the lawsuit. We haveheard many sweeping opinions from "Mr Turley is doing a good job cleaning up
ISKCON" to "The Gurukulis who filed the case are demons" etc. etc. However,
what has largely been conspicuous by its absence in the discussion thus far
has been the lack of a detailed reference to the actual complaint which has
been filed. Rather than being swept up purely by a wave of emotion, it is
important that we pay close attention to what the actual lawsuit *itself*
states. We may have not been able to do this thus far, since we are not all
lawyers, and the specific language of the complaint may not mean that much
to us. However, until we *do* understand the complaint, it would not be wise
to take a position regarding the lawsuit. We have had a top U.S. attorney
analyse the complaint for us, and what follows has been taken from his
assessment of the complaint. The full text of the complaint can be found at www.turley.com.</p>

<p>We will not concern ourselves here with the motives of those who either
support or are against the lawsuit. We have simply stepped back and taken a
dispassionate look at what the complaint actually states. We will lay out
the facts, and let the devotees make up there own minds as to whether the
lawsuit is beneficial, and whether or not they should support it by either
joining the lawsuit or agreeing to testify. The complaint will be quoted in
speech marks " " thus, and we will present this information in a simple 'key
facts' format, so that it is easy to understand.</p>


<p><strong>FACT 1: *** Srila Prabhupada is, for all purposes, *personally* named as a
defendant ***</strong></p>

<p>One simple point which has been missed is that this is not just a lawsuit
against the 'GBC' or 'ISKCON'. Srila Prabhupada is also named as a defendant
via his estate, which is standard  practice when a defendant has passed
away. The complaint, in listing the defendants, names the executors of Srila
Prabhupada's estate, specifically in their capacity "*as* Executors of The
Estate of A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada". Therefore the lawsuit is
claiming that Srila Prabhupada is also guilty along with Kirtanananda,Tamal
Krishna etc.etc. This lawsuit is as near as you can get to stating that
Srila Prabhupada was himself *personally* also responsible for all the
molestation that went on in ISKCON. The fact that the GBC are named as well,
does not lessen this allegation against Srila Prabhupada's personal
culpability.</p>

<p><Strong>Fact 2: *** Srila Prabhupada is named *again* via the proxy of ISKCON ***</strong></p>

<p>Right at the *beginning* the complaint defines ISKCON as follows:</p>

<p>"ISKCON is a spiritual institution based on a faith founded in the United
States by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (a/k/a "Prabhupada") in the
United States in July, 1966."</p>

<p>This makes it clear that all practices, teachings and activities of ISKCON
are *based* on the faith given by Srila Prabhupada. The complaint does not
subsequently go on to make any distinction between the activities of ISKCON
and the *real* faith as given by Srila Prabhupada. Thus any attack in the
complaint on ISKCON is effectively a direct attack on Srila Prabhupada.</p>

<p><strong>Fact 3: *** The Complaint Directly Attacks Srila Prabhupada's Teachings ***</strong></p>

<p>This is *not* just a lawsuit against the actual *acts* of child abuse and
those persons who *performed* those acts. In addition, it is a lawsuit
against the circumstances and conditions which *allowed* these acts to
happen. The chief condition, it is alleged, that allowed this to happen, was
the existence of the Gurukula itself, which was set up *specifically* to
*neglect* children, by devotees having to 'relinquish their parental
duties'. The complaint states:</p>

<p>"Because of the total devotion demanded of its followers by ISKCON, adult
"devotees" of ISKCON were encouraged, and, in order to advance within the
faith, required to relinquish their primary parental duties and place their
children in ISKCON-founded and sponsored schools, primarily boarding
schools, known as "gurukulas,"</p>

<p>Thus simply *having* a Gurukula involved parents having to "relinquish their
primary parental duties". This is a direct attack on Srila Prabhupada's
philosophy, since he considered the establishment of Gurukula "most
important":</p>

<p>"I consider the gurukula school to be one of the most important aspects of
this movement." (letter to Stoka-Krishna 6/20/72)</p>

<p>"It is the most important preaching work; training our children in Krishna
Conscious education."
(Letter to Mohanananda, 12/11/72)</p>

<p><strong>Fact 4: *** Srila Prabhupada's Instructions are Given as Examples of Child
Abuse ***</p></strong>

<p>The complaint lists the types of 'abuse' that the children suffered, and for
which they are claiming damages. In doing so, the plaintiffs also list
things which are not examples of child abuse at all, but simply the
execution of Srila Prabhupada's instructions:</p>

<p>"12. The children were physically abused by being awakened every day in the
early morning hours (generally at 4:00 a.m.) and subjected to a cold shower,
after which they were taken, without any breakfast, to a daily religious
service.</p>

<p>13. The children were not provided bathroom tissue, but instead were
expected to wipe themselves with their fingers, after which they would dip
their fingers into a bowl of water.</p>

<p>22. Children were controlled by various threats to hurt or kill them and by
punishments. Young children, strictly limited to a vegetarian diet, were
continually terrorized when told that non-Krishnas were meat-eaters</p>

<p>26. Sometimes the children were sent by their superiors to massage and bathe
the religious gurus and then drink their now "blessed bath water."</p>

<p>31. The children were emotionally abused by subjecting them to near-total
parental and societal isolation. In an effort to totally control their
minds, the children were, in most cases, separated and isolated from their
parents and were not allowed to have regular contact with their parents.</p>

<p>33. Even though the children were given by their parents to ISKCON to
educate, except for the reading of their "vedic scriptures," the children
received little or no education.</p>

<p>34. Because of near-total isolation from the outside world and lack of
education, the children who remained within the ISKCON schools for extended
periods of time were totally unequipped to enter outside society."</p>

<p>Waking up early and cleaning yourself with water after passing stool is part
of the Vedic culture, and not examples of 'child-abuse'. To be 'strictly
limited to a vegetarian diet' and told that 'non-Krishnas were 'meat-eaters'
is not an example of 'terrorising' someone. Also, if children engaged in
massaging Srila Prabhupada, this also is *not* child abuse. Remember
that in this complaint, 'Guru' is equally applicable to Srila Prabhupada. No
distinction is made between Srila Prabhupada and the pretender Gurus, and
between activities that occurred pre and post-77. The last 3 items, 31, 33 &
34 are simply an attack on the Gurukula education system. Gurukulas are set
up specifically to train boys to become priests or preachers, and are *not*
intended to provide secular education, and are *not* intended to equip the
graduates for secular society, and are designed to protect the children by
insulating them from society. If this is 'child abuse' then Jesuit, Amish
and other religious boarding schools would also be guilty of practising the
same child abuse, yet the US government has not shut these schools down but
actually subsidised them by granting them non-profit status.</p>

<p><strong>Fact 5: *** Srila Prabhupada is charged personally with conspiring to
cover-up the abuse. ***</strong></p>

<p>This is the infamous paragraph 35:</p>

<p>"35. The founder of the institution, Prabhupada, was informed in 1972, at a
time when he totally controlled the institution, that extensive physical and
sexual abuse of minor ISKCON children was occurring, but he concealed the
wrongdoing from the public, parents and all but a handful of close
advisors."</p>

<p>This untrue allegation is listed along with the horrible sexual crimes of
paedophilia as an example of the 'Abuse Inflicted'.</p>

<p><strong>*** Fact 6: Srila Prabhupada is accused of setting up the Gurukulas as a
'front' for criminal activity to illegally enrich himself ***</strong></p>

<p>The complaint states:</p>

<p>"The Defendants, at least in part, established and operated the school in
order to permit the parents to be freed to solicit and raise money for the
benefit of the gurus, temple leaders, and ISKCON corporations. Raising funds
and distribution of money were at the core of, and a pattern and practice
of, the Defendant's wrongful conduct and racketeering practices. ISKCON
and its leaders also enriched themselves by granting special favours to
large fund raisers and donors, even if some large donors were drug dealers
and other criminal elements."</p>

<p>Please note that since the complaint states later that the 'primary abuse'
occurred from 1972 onwards,  Srila Prabhupada is one of the 'defendants',
'Gurus' and 'leaders' named above who acted in this illegal manner. Thus,
Srila Prabhupada, at least in part, set these schools up to make himself
money, and was willing to commit many crimes to do so. This is known as
'Racketeering'. See next point.</p>

<p><strong>Fact 7: *** Srila Prabhupada is charged with setting-up ISKCON as a Racket
Like a Mafia Boss ***</strong></p>

<p>The lawsuit alleges that the "Krishna Enterprise" was from the very
beginning operated like a criminal organisation:</p>

<p>"Each Defendant has been associated with the Krishna Enterprise. Each
Defendant helped to direct the enterprise's actions and manage its affairs.
Each Defendant conducted or participated, directly or indirectly, in the
conduct of the Krishna Enterprise's affairs through a pattern of
racketeering activity in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1962(c). The Defendants'
pattern of racketeering activity dates from at least 1971 and continues to
the present, and threatens to continue in the future."</p>

<p>(Please note that 'racketeering' as an illicit act was originally conceived
of to specifically fight organised crime, and has usually been used against
the Mafia).</p>

<p>It clearly states that these activities were going on from "at least 1971",
and as shown under 'Fact 5' earlier the complaint had stated that in 1972
Srila Prabhupada "totally controlled the institution". Thus it is alleged
that Srila Prabhupada had effectively set up an organisation to enrich
himself through criminal acts. Just as the Mafia bosses came from Italy to
the USA and set up operations such as casinos, betting offices etc., which
they also "totally controlled" to enrich themselves, Srila Prabhupada had
come from India and set up ISKCON, Gurukulas etc., which he also ''totally
controlled'' to enrich himself through criminal activity. And the horrible
molestation which occurred was part and parcel of these 'racketeering
activities'.</p>

<p><strong>Fact 8: *** Srila Prabhupada's Alleged Guilt Runs Throughout the Whole
Lawsuit ***</strong></p>

<p>The introduction of 'racketeering' violations as being integral to the case
has clear implications for the strategy of the lawsuit. It means that the
culpability of Srila Prabhupada is also effectively integral to the lawsuit.
Just as with criminal racketeering suits that have been filed against the
Mafia, the culpability of the head of the organisation or the 'Don' who
"totally controls" the organisation, is usually central to the case.
Similarly, this lawsuit, having invoked the Racketeering laws (RICO), and in
stating:</p>

<li>a) That Srila Prabhupada is a de facto defendant via his estate;
<li>b) That ISKCON has been functioning as a 'Racket' "at least since 1971";
<li>c) That Srila Prabhupada "totally controlled the institution" and;
<li>d) And that Srila Prabhupada personally knew of, and actively covered-up,
the child abuse which was occurring;

<p>means that Srila Prabhupada's guilt is fully tied up with that of the other
defendants. Turley and Co. are not going to concede this guilt, knowing full
well that it could have implications for the whole basis of their case.</p>

<p>*** Thus one is not going to be able to *lessen* this alleged guilt of Srila
Prabhupada by *supporting*, either by testifying or joining, the very
lawsuit that has Srila Prabhupada's guilt as its basis. ***</p>

<p>To claim otherwise is simply betraying a complete ignorance of what the
lawsuit actually *states*.Thus joining the lawsuit, or making any testimony
on behalf of the lawsuit, can only have the effect of at least indirectly
supporting the most horrible of allegations against Srila Prabhupada.</p>



<p><strong>*** Conclusion ***</strong></p>

<p>Therefore in total, the lawsuit as it stands at the moment is stating that:</p>

<p>*** Srila Prabhupada founded a criminal child molesting organisation, and
that he actively nourished and sustained these activities both through his
personal actions and teachings. ***</p>

<p>To simply state that Srila Prabhupada did not act alone but acted in concert
with his partners in crime - the GBC - as the lawsuit alleges, does not
alter this insane and horrible central allegation. In effect, the lawsuit is
no different in terms of Srila Prabhupada's culpability, than if it had been
filed against Srila Prabhupada ALONE. To put it another way - imagine if the
$400 million child abuse lawsuit had been filed against Srila Prabhupada
ONLY, claiming that he was responsible and that his estate should pay. In
such a situation, every sane man, woman and child would have rushed to crush
the lawsuit and defend Srila Prabhupada from such a heinous charge. The
current lawsuit in simply adding *OTHERS* as also being responsible does not
change the lawsuit's assertion that Srila Prabhupada was also culpable in
the manner listed above.</p>

<p>Please note the above is simple legal fact based on the text of the
complaint, as analysed by an US attorney. Anyone who had taken the time and
trouble to carefully read the complaint with the help of any lawyer, would
have also come to the same conclusion. Thus in our eagerness to 'nail the
GBC' and obtain justice, unless we proceed with intelligence and consider
the actual FACTS rather than just be driven on by emotion, we will end up
promoting the greatest falsehood imaginable.</p>

<p>Thus it is hard to see how a lawsuit which alleges the above could be
tolerated by anyone claiming to love or defend Srila Prabhupada. The
argument that it is fine to sacrifice Srila Prabhupada's name because the
lawsuit will ALSO possibly hurt a few temples and some ex-GBCs, makes no
sense either. It is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The aim
of ATTACKING the GBC would be to DEFEND ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada from
them. So how are you achieving this if you need to ATTACK Srila Prabhupada
and *HIS* ISKCON in the process? If a house has been occupied by burglars,
you do not remove them by burning the whole house down WITH THE REAL OWNER
INSIDE. This is why the IRM has filed a suit that names ONLY the
non-obedient impostor Gurus and GBC and NOT ISKCON, and is BASED on the fact
that Srila Prabhupada is the pure unimpeachable Bona Fide Spiritual Master -
not BASED on the fact that he is a criminal child-molesting promoting
gangster, as in the case of the Turley suit.</p>

<p>Please study the 8 *facts* above and see for yourself how the lawsuit
inflicts such a horrible DEFAMATION on Srila Prabhupada.</p>

<p>The Gurukulis *definitely* need justice for the abuses that have been
inflicted upon them. But ATTACKING Srila Prabhupada is not the way to
achieve it. On the contrary it is the worst course of action possible. The
lawsuit could just as easily have been drawn up in such a way so as to
exonerate Srila Prabhupada, not implicate him as a central figure.</p>

<p>Surely if we claim to love Srila Prabhupada, should we not be opposing such
a horrible lawsuit with all our might?</p>

<p>*** There is nothing so important in this world that we must sacrifice Srila
Prabhupada to achieve it. ***</p>


<P>IRM Website: <a href="http://www.come.to/irm" target="links">http://www.come.to/irm</a></p>

	IRM Adridharana Dasa	2000-08-14	50		|	R	D	yoga	50	How One Should Perform Yoga--RealAudio Bhagavad Gita Class 6.11-21	In India there are some selected places, very sacred place, and the yogis, generally, they go there and sit there alone in a sacred place and as prescribed in the Bhagavad-gita and perform there. Yoga-asana cannot be executed in a public place...	/Articles/2000/08/00076.html	/images/Krishna/PanchaTattva.jpg			width="202" height="269"	right	yoga asanas, meditation, India travel,Hare Krishna,Bhaktivedanta Swami,Prabhupada, Bhagavad Gita	<p>In India there are some selected places, very sacred place, and the yogis, generally, they go there and sit there alone in a sacred place and as prescribed in the <i>Bhagavad-gita </i>and perform there. <i>Yoga-asana</i> cannot be executed in a public place, so that, in assembly. Now, so far this <i>kirtana </i>is concerned... Just like we have performed just now <i>kirtana,</i> this is called <i>sankirtana. Sankirtana </i>means: <i>bahubhir militva kirtayati iti sankirtanam. </i>When we sit down, many people together... When Lord Caitanya was performing this <i>kirtana</i> ceremony five hundred years before, He had in each group sixteen persons taking part in <i>kirtana, </i>and thousands and thousands of people were singing with them. Now, this participation in the <i>kirtana</i> is very easily possible. But so far the yoga system is concerned, that is required any very secluded and sacred place, silent. That is required. It is clearly said here that <i>sucau dese pratisthapya sthiram asanam atmanah.</i> One has to place himself in a sacred place, in a silent place; then yoga system is possible.<p>
   Now, comparatively, at the present moment, if you have to practice yoga, then strictly, according to the rules and regulations, you have to leave your home, you have to go out in a secluded place, in a sacred place, and there you have to execute the performance of meditation and yoga. At home it is not possible. So far <i>Bhagavad-gita </i>is concerned, it is a book of authority. It is recommended here that you should find out a place, suitable place for executing yoga. But here, this is also yoga. This is called <i>bhakti-yoga. Sravanam kirtanam. Bhakti-yoga,</i> they have got nine different processes. Out of that, the first two, <i>sravanam kirtanam, </i>hearing and chanting. I am chanting, you are hearing; you are chanting, I am hearing. This is the process, holy name of Sri Krishna. So everyone can take part in it. But in the yoga system, a particular man, if he is expert, if he is able, if he can live alone from home in a secluded place, then perfection of yoga can be attained. It cannot be attained in a city, in a very good assembly, by exercising, gymnastic. No. That is not recommended in the <i>Bhagavad-gita,</i> at least. We may do that according to one's own way, but that is not the system recommended by the <i>Bhagavad-gita.</i>
<p>
<p align=center><i>tatraikagram manah krtva</i></br>
<i>yata-cittendriya-kriyah</i><br>
<i>upavisyasane yunjyad</i><br>
<i>yogam atma-visuddhaye</i><br>
<p>
The whole process is, yoga system, whole process is to purify myself. Purify. <i>Atma-visuddhaye. </i>And what is that purification? The purification is that I am pure spirit. I am not this matter. And under material contact I am identifying myself that "I am matter." I am thinking of myself, "I am this body." This is impurity of my existence. And it is clearly said here that one has to realize his constitutional position, that he is not this matter. (coughs) No water? <i>Atma-visuddhaye. Upavisyasane yunjyad yogam atma-visuddhaye.</i> The whole process is to purify. Now, this purification process, if somebody is not able to go outside home and find out a secluded place, do you think that his purification of his existence will not be possible? No, it will be possible. That is the contribution of Lord Caitanya. He says that
<p>
<p align=center><i>harer nama harer nama</i></br>
<i>harer namaiva kevalam</i><br>
<i>kalau nasty eva nasty eva</i><br>
<i>nasty eva gatir anyatha</i><br>
<p>
Lord Caitanya says, "In this age..." This age is called quarrel, age of quarrel. So He says that in this age especially... Of course, this chanting of holy name of Krsna, or God, that is always; throughout the history of Vedic literature you'll find. But especially in this age it is recommended. Why? <i>Kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha.</i> Three times He has said that "There is no other alternative, there is no other alternative, there is no other alternative." <i>Nasty eva </i>means "There is no other alternative." This is the only process, this is. <i>Harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam.</i> He says that "In this age, simply chanting of God's name, that is the only process, that is the only process, that is the only process. And there is no other alternative, there is no other alternative, there is no other alternative." Why does He say three times? Three times means that this yoga process was possible in the Satya-yuga. <i>Krte yad dhyayato visnum. </i>In those age people could very easily and nicely meditate upon the Visnu.<p>
   Sometimes it is recommended that yoga system is meditation in the void. But we do not find in the Vedic literature that yoga system meditation on void. No. It is meditation on Visnu. That will be explained in the <i>Bhagavad-gita.</i> Now, after sitting in a secluded place, in a sanctified place, and according to the sitting arrangement, with tigerskin or deerskin and straw, as it is recommended, then one should sit down there. He should not change his <i>asana, </i>sitting place. Then after sitting, what he has to do? He says, <i>samam kaya-siro-grivam dharayann acalam sthirah.</i> Now, one has to sit down straight. One has to sit down straight so that his skull, this head, and the body, and everything should be straight like that. <i>Samam kaya-grivam. Griva</i> means this neck. The neck and the skull and the body should be in one straight line. <i>Samam kaya-siro-grivam dharayann acalam.</i> And should not move. Sit down like this. <i>Sampreksya nasikagram. </i>And one has to see the top portion of the nose. Not that one has to close his eyes completely. No. Then you cannot see. <i>Sampreksya nasika agram. </i>You have to see the upper portion of the nose. That means if you... I have seen in some of the yogic societies, they close the eyes completely, and some of them, about fifty percent of them are sneezing, or sleeping, regularly. Because as soon as you close your eyes, and if you have no subject matter to think, and you have been posted to meditate, you do not know to what to meditate, then the next result is sleeping and nothing more. That is practical. So one has to sleep very hard. Somebody was inquiring here... (chuckles) Of course, some of the students, they were sleeping so he was sarcastically (asking) that "Are they sleeping or meditating?" So I (said), "Yes, they are meditating by lying down." Yes. So sometimes meditation goes on in sleeping. No. That is not the process. You cannot close your eyes completely. Then you will invite the queen. Sleep and she will capture you. Whole process will be like that.<p>
   Here it is said that in order to keep yourself alive, you have to always see the upper portion of your nose. <i>Sampreksya nasikagram svam disas canavalokayan.</i> And you cannot see that who is coming there, "Oh, who is here? Some tiger is coming or something is coming?" No. No fear. Because you are put in a Himalaya, in a secluded place, and in a sanctified place. So you haven't got to, for any other reason, you haven't got to move your neck. That is not possible in the society. You must have to go in a secluded place. There are so many disturbance. At once, disturbance is there and I have to look, "Who is there?" This is the position here. But here it is said that you cannot move your head. You have to sit down straight, that your neck and skull and body should be in one straight line, and you have to see the upper portion of your nose always. That is the system. <i>Prasantatma vigata-bhir brahmacari-vrate sthitah.</i> Then one should be undisturbed in mind. A man who is always disturbed in mind, he cannot perform yoga. That is not possible. And <i>vigata-bhih. Bhih </i>means fearfulness. One who has no fear. If he has got fear, then how he can go out of home in the jungle? That is not possible. That is another qualification for executing yoga. Not only for yoga. Any person who is trying to elevate himself in the spiritual line, he has to become fearless. <i>Vigata-bhih.</i><p>
   And <i>brahmacari-vrate sthitah. Brahmacari-vrata </i>means celibacy, no sex life at all. Completely prohibited. <i>Brahmacari. Brahmacari-vrate. Vrata </i>means with a vow that "I'll have no sex life," with a vow. Such person can execute yoga system. <i>Prasantatma vigata-bhir brahmacari-vrate sthitah, manah samyamya.</i> When the <i>atma </i>is... There is no demand. When you have no demand, then your mind is naturally becomes controlled. <i>Manah samyamya mac-cittah. </i>Now, doing all these things, the next item is <i>mac-cittah. </i>Krsna says <i>mat, </i>to transfer the whole thinking to Krsna or Visnu. Not vacant. <i>Mac-cittah. </i>So if that is the system of yoga, <i>mac-cittah, yukta asita mat-parah. Mac-cittah</i> and <i>yukta asita mat-parah.</i> "Always thinking of Me, or Visnu. Always thinking of Me." So now, that one who is in Krsna consciousness, he gets the opportunity of the highest yoga system, but he hasn't got to take the trouble of the process. That is the beauty of Krsna consciousness. Here the whole thing is coming down, the Lord says <i>mac-cittah. </i>The mind should be engaged in Visnu. The yogi, the real yogi, who goes to the forest, to the secluded place, he thinks of the <i>catur-bhuja </i>Visnu. That will be explained here.
<p>
<p align=center><i>manah samyamya mac-citto</i></br>
<i>yukta asita mat-parah</i><br>
<p>
<p align=center><i>yunjann evam sadatmanam</i></br>
<i>yogi niyata-manasah</i><br>
<p>
<i> Yunjann evam. </i>By prosecuting the process of yoga in such a way, the sitting place, the, I mean to say, bodily requisition, <i>brahmacari,</i> celibacy, secluded place, and sitting straight, and looking on the uppermost part of the nose. These are the sitting process. And mind should be concentrated on Visnu. This is the meditation process. <i>Evam sadatmanam yogi niyata-manasah. Niyata-manasah</i> means "one who has thus controlled his mind." The whole process is, yogic process is simply to control the mind. <i>Yoga indriya-samyamya. </i>Not only mind, but all the senses, all the senses, they should be under control. And controlling the senses, the mind should be engaged in Visnu within. Visnu we have got, Paramatma, the Supersoul, Visnu, and we have to concentrate in that way. Then <i>santim nirvana-paramam mat-samstham adhigacchati.</i> Then he becomes peaceful after extinguishing this material life. The material life is just like fire. It has been compared with the forest fire. As the forest fire automatically takes place, nobody goes to set fire, similarly, in this material world, even if you try to live very peacefully and without quarreling with any other man, the place is such nuisance that you'll not be able to live in peace anywhere, anywhere within this universe. That is the process.<p>
   But one who is transcendentally situated, either by the yogic process or by the process of empiric knowledge or by <i>bhakti-yoga, </i>either of these processes... There may be a little difference of the ultimate end, but all these three processes, they are meant for transcendental life. So any process, if you make it perfect, then really you get peace. Peace. The only difference is that this yogic process as described in the <i>Bhagavad-gita, </i>it is not possible to be executed in this age. Therefore the next alternative is this <i>hari-kirtana,</i> as Lord Caitanya recommends and devises. And you can practically see that <i>kirtana, </i>this <i>kirtana, </i> you can go on for hours together; you'll feel not tired. But if you are asked to sit down in the posture as recommended in the <i>Bhagavad-gita </i>for executing yoga system, oh, hardly you can spare some minutes. You see.<p>
   So <i>santim nirvana-paramam mat-samstham adhigacchati.</i> And after extinguishing this material life, then what is the next? Next is not void, is not impersonal void, as they say. <i>Bhagavad-gita </i>does not say like that. <i>Bhagavad-gita </i> says, <i>mat-samstham adhigacchati.</i> "He enters into My establishment." <i>Samstham</i> means establishment. Now, when you speak of establishment... Suppose a big man, he has got establishment. So that means it is not void. Establishment means there are varieties of engagement. Unless it cannot be <i>samstham. </i>So here it is clearly said that <i>mat-samstham adhigacchati.</i> One attains to the kingdom of God where spiritual varieties are there. They are not variety-less. Otherwise, the Lord would not have said that <i>samstham. </i>There is a regular establishment. Just like you have got a regular establishment in your household affairs, similarly, the Lord has a regular household establishment in the spiritual world. <i>Mat-samstham adhigacchati. </i>If... These processes are simply to qualify himself to enter into that establishment. That's all. We are all belong to that establishment, but being forgetful, we are now in this material world.<p>
   Just like sometimes some of us becomes crazy and he is, goes to the lunatic asylum, similarly, those who become crazy, such spiritual identities, they are put into this lunatic asylum. It is called material world. This is a sort of lunatic asylum. Everything is being done not very sanely. (laughter) You see? (chuckling) So we have to get out of this lunatic asylum and enter into the kingdom of God, Sri Krsna.<p>
   Now, Sri Krsna is personally teaching what is His kingdom, what He is, what you are, and what is your relationship with Krsna. Everything is being taught in the <i>Bhagavad-gita.</i> And a sane man, an intelligent man, must take advantage of these processes. Then Lord Krsna says, <i>natyasnatas tu yogo 'sti. </i>"Anyone who eats more than necessary, oh, he cannot perform yoga." <i>Na ati asnatas yogo 'sti na ca ekantam anasnatah. </i>"A person," I mean to say, "willfully trying to keep himself in starvation, he cannot perform yoga. Neither the person who eats more than he requires, he also cannot perform yoga." The eating process should be moderate, only for keeping the body and soul together. Not for enjoyment of the tongue. So that is the real yogic process, that you cannot eat very palatable things. Because as soon as palatable things comes before us, naturally if I take one, I must take two, three, four. You see? So so far yogis are concerned, they cannot take any palatable desirable things. They have to simply take only the necessities. Some of the yogis, I have seen, there was one yogi in Calcutta... Of course, in a temple, in a sanctified place. He was taking once only a little quantity of rice boiled with water, at three o'clock in the afternoon he was taking. That was his food and nothing more. Nothing more.<p>
   So <i>natyasnatas tu yogo 'sti na caikantam anasnatah na cati svapna-silasya. </i>"If anyone dreams very much, he cannot also execute." Now, here Sri Krsna does not say that there is dreamless sleep. Dreamless sleep cannot be possible. It is not possible. If somebody says, "dreamless sleep," it is also another lunacy. No. Dream there must be, more or less. As soon as you go asleep, oh, dream there must be. That may be good dream, bad dream, or for long time or for little time. But dream there must be. Now, Krsna says that <i>na ca ati svapna-silasya. </i> That means "One who dreams very much while sleeping, he cannot execute yoga." <i>Na jagrato naiva carjuna.</i> "And one who cannot sleep at night..." I have got a young friend, he cannot sleep. So for him, it is not yoga...yoga process is not possible. He may note down here. So sleep also required. You cannot remain without sleeping. That is also required. That means somehow or other, you should keep your body fit. You should not eat more, you sleeping. That is also required. That means somehow or other, you should keep your body fit. You should not eat more, you shall not voluntarily starve, you should not be voluntarily awake, and neither, and if you keep yourself peaceful, then you'll not sleep...you'll not dream also. When the bile is very much agitated, then we see so many dreams due to the air which is coming out of agitated bile. And if you keep yourself peaceful, cool mind, cool head, cool, I mean to say, stomach, then there will, there will be ordinary sleep.<p>
   So here it is said that <i>na ca ati svapna-silasya jagrato naiva carjuna. </i> Again He repeats, <i>yuktahara-viharasya yoga-cestasya, yukta-cestasya karmasu.</i> Now here again He says, <i>yukta-cestasya karmasu. </i>Now, if a yogi has to go away from home, then where is the question of <i>karma?</i> That means sometimes those who are practicing yoga at home, for him it is said that <i>yukta-cestasya karmasu. </i>If you want to be a yogi at home, then your other engagement should be moderate. You cannot engage for earning your living very heavily and at the same time you can become a yogi. No, that is not possible. That is not possible. <i>Yuktahara-viharasya.</i> You should eat very moderately, you should gratify your senses very moderately, your work should be anxietyless, you should not dream more, and you should not be awake. These are the rules. Then yoga process will be successful.
<p>
<p align=center><i>yada viniyatam cittam</i></br>
<i>atmany evavatisthate</i><br>
<i>nisprhah sarva-kamebhyo</i><br>
<i>yukta ity ucyate tada</i><br>
<p>
Now, what is the sign that one has attained perfection in yoga? The Lord says, <i>yada viniyatam cittam. Cittam </i>means your heart or your consciousness. When it is self-controlled, consciousness (is) completely under your control, you do not become dependent on the dictation of your mind, but mind becomes under your control... <i>Yada viniyatam cittam atmany evavatisthate.</i> And mind does not go out because the yogi's principal business is to think of Krsna or Visnu always. So yogi cannot allow his mind to go out. That is possible in Krsna consciousness. When we are engaged in Krsna consciousness, always engaged in Krsna's service, naturally my mind cannot go out besides Krsna. Besides Krsna. The mind is automatically controlled. <i>Nisprhah sarva-kamebhyah.</i> And you shall have no desire for material sense gratification. <i>Sarva-kamebhyah. Kama </i>means material desires, and <i>sarva,</i> and all kinds of. That means if you are in Krsna consciousness, then you have no other desires. So your desires... Desireless you cannot be. That is not possible. Desireless means... Here it is clearly said, <i>sarva-kamebhyah. Kamebhyah </i>means desire for sense gratification. That is to be purified. But desire to serve Krsna, that is very good, very nice thing.<p>
   So we have to transfer the desire. This is called Krsna consciousness. That's all. Desire we cannot kill. It is not possible. I am a living being. Desire is my constant companion. So therefore Krsna consciousness means to purify the desire. How is that? Without <i>sarva-kamebhyah, </i>without desiring for material sense gratification, I can desire so many things for Krsna's service. There are so many things. And suppose... Just like take for example eating. Eating, we want palatable dishes. Very good. But you prepare the palatable foodstuff for Krsna. For Krsna you prepare hundreds of palatable... Don't think that "It is being prepared for me." Therefore one who prepares foodstuff for Krsna, he has to take very precaution. You see? That it is being prepared for Krsna. Sometimes I therefore ask the students "Don't touch your mouth. Don't... Very cleanly, very sanctifiedly." Because it is being prepared... So now, that desire, that "Krsna will eat such nice cake and such nice rice," so the whole thing is prepared in Krsna consciousness, and when it is offered to Krsna, you taste. So your <i>kama</i> is already sacrificed because from the very beginning you're thinking that "It is being prepared for Krsna." You have no desire for that. But Krsna is so merciful that He gives you the foodstuff for your eating; so your desire is already fulfilled. You do not desire it, but Krsna's mercy is so that He can fulfill your desire.<p>
   <i>Nisprhah sarva-kamebhyo yukta ity ucyate tada.</i> At that time, when one has molded his life in such a way, then he's to be understood that he has attained perfection in the yoga system. Simply routine work, doing some exercise, that is not the yoga system as far (as) <i>Bhagavad-gita </i>is concerned. Now,
<p>
<p align=center><i>yatha dipo nivatastho</i></br>
<i>nengate sopama smrta</i><br>
<i>yogino yata-cittasya</i><br>
<i>yunjato yogam atmanah</i><br>
<p>
Just like a lamp, when it is not agitated by the wind, the flame is straight, similarly, the mind should not be agitated. That flame is very nice, when it is stand straight without being moved by the wind. That flame is very nice. So that example is given here. The flame is so susceptible to wind that a little agitation it moves. So similarly, our mind is also so susceptible to material desires that a little movement can change the whole thing. Change it. <i>Balavan indriya-gramo vidvamsam api karsati.</i> Little change. In the Vedic language it is forbidden for a yogi, or those who are transcendentalist... Because he has to remain <i>brahmacari-vrate sthitah.</i><p>
   <i> Brahmacari,</i> there are two kinds of <i>brahmacaris. </i>One who is leading complete celibacy, complete free from sex life, he is called <i>brahmacari. </i>Another <i>brahmacari </i>is <i>grhastha-brahmacari. </i>He has got his wife, but he has no other understanding with any other woman. And that wife also only, I mean to say, relationship is performed under regulation, he is also <i>brahmacari. </i>One who has his relationship with wife under rules and regulation and does not know any other woman, he is also <i>brahmacari. </i> That is also called <i>brahmacari-vrata.</i> And one who lives complete celibacy life, that he is also <i>brahmacari. </i>So that <i>brahmacari-vrata </i>is essential for yogi. <i>Brahmacari-vrata. </i>Now, <i>yata-cittasya... yogam atmanah, </i>that mind should not be agitated. He says, "The mind should not be agitated." Suppose I am <i>brahmacari, </i>I have taken the vow, <i>brahmacari-vrate sthitah,</i> I have taken the vow that "I will have no sex life in my life." Then mind may be agitated sometimes. So there is precautions. Precautions. It is said in the Vedic literature that one should be very careful about woman. They are so much careful, <i>matra svasra duhitra va naviviktasano bhavet.</i> The prescription is that "One should not sit alone even with his mother, with his sister, and with his daughter." You see. <i>Balavan indriya-gramo vidvamsam api karsati.</i> The mind is so, I mean to say, fragile that even little, they can create havoc. You see? So these things are prescription for the yogis. Yogi has to look into the prescription of the system.
<p>
<p align=center><i>yatroparamate cittam</i></br>
<i>niruddham yoga-sevaya</i><br>
<i>yatra caivatmanatmanam</i><br>
<i>pasyann atmani tusyati</i><br>
<p>
Now the yogi should control in such a way his mind that as soon as mind goes from the position of meditating on Visnu, he should at once drag the mind. That requires a very good practice. You see. Then Krsna says that
<p>
<p align=center><i>sukham atyantikam yat tad</i></br>
<i>buddhi-grahyam atindriyam</i><br>
<i>vetti yatra na caivayam</i><br>
<i>sthitas calati tattvatah</i><br>
<p>
One who does not know that real happiness can be experienced by our transcendental senses, not with these material senses... Senses are not to be sacrificed. Desires are not to be sacrificed, but there are desires in the spiritual field, there are sense satisfaction in the spiritual field. That is a different thing. So here it is said, <i>sukham atyantikam yat.</i> What is really happiness, <i>tad buddhi-grahyam atindriyam, </i>that is transcendental to this experience, empirical sense gratification. <i>Vetti yatra na caivayam sthitas calati tattvatah.</i> One who does not know this, then certainly he will be agitated in the mind and fall down. So one should know that the happiness which we are trying to derive from the material senses, that is not happiness. I have, several times I recited one nice verse, the description of Rama.
<p>
<p align=center><i>ramante yogino 'nante</i></br>
<i>satyanande cid-atmani</i><br>
<i>iti rama-padenasau</i><br>
<i>param brahmabhidhiyate</i><br>
<p>
<i> </i>that <i>yoginah, </i>those who are actually yogis, they also enjoy. And how they enjoy? <i>Ramante yoginah anante.</i> In the unlimited, not into the limited. In the unlimited. <i>Yoginah anante</i> and <i>satyanande,</i> that is real happiness. <i>Satyanande cid-atmani.</i> And that is spiritual. That is not material. <i>Iti rama,</i> this is the meaning of Rama. Hare Rama. We described, this Rama means to enjoy in the spiritual life. That is called Rama.<p>
   It is all pleasure. Krsna is also pleasure. Rama is also pleasure. Because we are all hunting after pleasure. But we do not know where to find out the pleasure. The pleasure is in spiritual life. That is real pleasure. We haven't got to sacrifice pleasure, but we have to enjoy it properly. Just like diseased man, he cannot enjoy life. His enjoyment of life is a false enjoyment. When he's cured, when he's in healthy life, then his enjoyment is bona fide. Similarly, so long we are in the material conception of life, we do not expect that we are enjoying. We are simply entangling. That means diseased man, if he enjoys, if he takes nice food. He cannot eat, but if he likes and takes stealthily, without the information of the medical physician, then he prolongs his diseases. That's all. He is killing himself, the process. Similarly, the more we increase our material enjoyment we are more making ourself entangled in this material world, without being freed from these material clutches.<p>
   That is the whole system of yoga, <i>jnana, bhakti,</i> anywhere. Anywhere. One may find, "This system is nice; that system is very difficult.' That is a different thing, but any system you adopt, the whole thing is that you have to purify your existence from the conception of material enjoyment to the conception of Krsna consciousness enjoyment. That will make you happy. Thank you very much. <i>(kirtana) </i>(end) [660907BG.NY] 
<p>
His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada	Srila Prabhupada	2000-08-13	50	/RealAudio/66/66_024_B.ram	|	A	D	society	50	Getting Out of the Material Mire	We have created a humbug civilization. Every year so many cars are being manufactured, and for that purpose so many roads have to be excavated and repaired. This creates problems after problems, and therefore it is illusory happiness. We are trying to manufacture some way to be happy, but we only succeed in creating other problems.	/Articles/2000/08/00075.html	/images/Krishna/RadhaKrishna.jpg			width="200" height="278"	right	society,Hare Krishna,Bhaktivedanta Swami,Prabhupada, Bhagavad Gita	<p>   Our subject matter is most sublime: the glorification of the holy name of God. This subject was discussed by Maharaja Pariksit and Sukadeva Gosvami, who noted that a <i>brahmana,</i> who was very fallen and addicted to all kinds of sinful activities, was saved simply by chanting the holy names of Krishna. This is found in the Sixth Canto of <i>Srimad-Bhagavatam,</i> an epic work by Vyasadeva describing the pastimes of Lord Krsna and elaborating on the philosophy of Krsna consciousness.<p>
   In the Fifth Canto of <i>Srimad-Bhagavatam,</i> the universal planetary systems are very fully explained. Within the universe there are lower, middle and higher planetary systems. Actually, not only the <i>Bhagavatam</i> but all religious scriptures contain descriptions of hellish or lower planetary systems and heavenly or higher systems. <i>Srimad-Bhagavatam</i> gives evidence of where these planets are and indicates how far they are from this planet, just as astronomers have calculated how far the moon and other heavenly bodies are from earth. Similarly, the <i>Bhagavatam</i> contains descriptions of the various planets.<p>
   Even on this planet we experience different climatic conditions. In temperate countries such as the United States, the climate is different from that of a tropical country like India. just as there are environmental differences on this planet, there are other planets which have far different atmospheres and environments. After hearing a description of such planets from Sukadeva Gosvami, Pariksit Maharaja said:
<p>
<p align=center><i>adhuneha maha-bhaga</i></br>
<i>yathaiva narakan narah</i><br>
<i>nanogra-yatanan neyat</i><br>
<i>tan me vyakhyatum arhasi</i><br>
<p>
   "Sir, I have heard from you about the hellish planets. Men who are very sinful are sent to those planets." (<b></b><i>Bhag.</i> 6.1.6)<p>
   Pariksit Maharaja was a Vaisnava (devotee), and a Vaisnava always feels compassion for others' distress. For instance, when Lord Jesus Christ appeared, he was greatly aggrieved by the miserable conditions of the people. Regardless of the country or sect to which they belong, all Vaisnavas or devotees--any people who are God conscious or Krsna conscious--are thus compassionate. Therefore to blaspheme a Vaisnava, a preacher of God's glories, is a great offense.<p>
   Krsna never tolerates offenses committed at the lotus feet of a pure Vaisnava. A Vaisnava, however, is always ready to forgive such offenses. <i>Krpambudhi:</i> A Vaisnava is an ocean of mercy. <i>Vanca-kalpa-taru:</i> Everyone has desires, but a Vaisnava can fulfill all desires. <i>Kalpa-taru</i> refers to a tree in the spiritual world which is called a wish-fulfilling tree. In this material world a particular type of fruit can only be gotten from a particular type of tree, but in Krsnaloka, as well as in all the other planets in the spiritual sky, all the trees are spiritual and will yield whatever one desires. That is described in the <i>Brahma-samhita</i> (<i>cintamani prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vrksa</i>). A pure Vaisnava is compared to such a wish-fulfilling tree, for he can bestow a matchless gift upon a sincere disciple--Krsna consciousness.<p>
   A Vaisnava is addressed as <i>maha-bhaga,</i> which means "fortunate." One who becomes a Vaisnava and is God conscious is understood to be greatly fortunate. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the chief exponent of Krsna consciousness in this age, has explained that the living entities in various planetary systems all over the universe are rotating in different species of life. A living entity can go wherever he likes--to heaven or to hell--simply by preparing himself for either place. There are many heavenly planets, many hellish planets, and many species of life. <i>Padma Purana</i> estimates the species of life to be 8,400,000, and the living entity is rotating or wandering through these species and creating bodies according to his mentality in his present life. "As you sow, so shall you reap," is the law that governs here. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that out of these numberless living entities who are transmigrating in the material world, one may be fortunate enough to take to Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness is being distributed freely everywhere, yet not everyone takes to it, especially in this age of Kali. Because of this, <i>Srimad-Bhagavatam</i> characterizes people in the age of Kali as unfortunate. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that only those who are fortunate take to this Krsna consciousness and thus attain a pleasant and blissful life of knowledge.<p>
   It is the duty of a Vaisnava to go from door to door to try to get unfortunate people to accept good fortune. A Vaisnava thinks, "How can these people be delivered from their hellish life?" That was also Maharaja Pariksit's inquiry. "Sir," he said, "you have described that because of one's sinful activities he is put into a hellish condition of life or in a hellish planetary system. Now, what are the methods by which such a person can be saved?" This is a very important question. When a Vaisnava comes, when God Himself comes, or when God's sons or His very confidential devotees come, their only mission is to save sinful men who are suffering. They have knowledge of how to do this. When Prahlada Maharaja met Lord Nrsimhadeva, he said:
<p>
<p align=center><i>naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaranyas</i></br>
<i>tvad-virya-gayana-mahamrta-magna-cittah</i><br>
<i>soce tato vimukha-cetasa indriyartha-</i><br>
<i>maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato vimudhan</i><br>
<p>
<p align=right>(<b></b><i>Bhag.</i> 7.9.43)<p></p>
   "My dear Lord," Prahlada began, "I am not very anxious for my own deliverance." At this point we may contrast this attitude with that of the Mayavadi philosophers who are very careful that their personal salvation is never interrupted. They often think, "If down, and my realization will be finished." Therefore they do not come forward to preach. Only the Vaisnavas come, even at the risk of falldown--but they do not fall down. A Vaisnava is even willing to go to hell to deliver conditioned souls. This is also Prahlada Maharaja's mission. He went on to say: "I am not very anxious about living in this material world. I have no anxiety for myself because somehow or other I have been trained to be Krsna conscious always." Because Prahlada was Krsna conscious, he was confident that in his next life he was going to Krsna. It is stated in <i>Bhagavad-gita</i> that if one executes the regulated principles of Krsna consciousness carefully, it is certain that he will reach the supreme destination in his next life. Prahlada Maharaja continues: "There is only one source of anxiety for me. I am anxious for those who are not Krsna conscious. For myself I have no anxiety, but I am thinking of them." And why aren't people Krsna conscious? <i>Maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato vimudhan.</i> The rascals have created a humbug civilization for temporary happiness.<p>
   <i>Maya-sukhaya.</i> Actually this is a fact. We have succeeded in creating a humbug civilization. Every year so many cars are being manufactured, and for that purpose so many roads have to be excavated, prepared and repaired. This creates problems after problems, and therefore it is <i>maya-sukhaya,</i> illusory happiness. We are trying to manufacture some way to be happy, but we only succeed in creating other problems. The United States has the world's largest number of cars, but that does not solve any problems. We have manufactured cars to help solve the problems of life, but we often experience that this also creates other problems. Once we create cars, we must travel thirty or forty miles just to meet our friends or go to a doctor. We can even go from New York to Boston in less than an hour by plane, but it takes even longer than that just to get to the airport. This situation is called <i>maya-sukhaya. Maya</i> means false, illusory. We try to create a very comfortable situation, but we only succeed in creating another uncomfortable situation. This is the way of the material world; if we are not satisfied by the natural comforts offered by God and nature, and we want to create artificial comforts, then we have to create discomfort also. Most people, ignorant of this fact, think that they are creating a very comfortable situation, but in actuality they end up traveling fifty miles to go to the office to earn a livelihood and fifty miles to come back.<p>
   Due to such conditions, Prahlada Maharaja says that these <i>vimudhas,</i> materialistic persons, have unnecessarily burdened themselves simply for temporary happiness. <i>Vimudhan, maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato.</i> Therefore in Vedic civilization it is recommended that one free himself from material life, take <i>sannyasa,</i> the renounced order, and execute devotional service with no anxiety.<p>
   The taking of the renounced order, however, is not always necessary. If one can execute Krsna consciousness in family life, that is also recommended. Although Bhaktivinoda Thakura was a family man and magistrate, he still executed devotional service most excellently. Dhruva Maharaja and Prahlada Maharaja were also <i>grhasthas,</i> householders, but they trained themselves in such a way that even as householders they were not faced with interruptions in their service. Therefore Prahlada Maharaja said, "I have learned the art of always remaining in Krsna consciousness." What is that art? <i>Tvad-virya-gayana-mahamrta-magna-cittah:</i> simply glorifying the victorious activities and pastimes of the Lord. The word <i>virya</i> means "very heroic." By reading <i>Srimad-Bhagavatam,</i> we can come to understand that Krsna's activities, His fame, His associates and everything else about Him are all heroic. In this connection, Prahlada Maharaja said: "I am certain that wherever I go, I can glorify Your heroic activities and be saved. There is no question of my falling down, but I am simply anxious for those who have created a type of civilization in which they are always busy working hard. I am thinking of them." Prahlada further says:
<p>
<p align=center><i>prayena deva munayah sva-vimukti-kama</i></br>
<i>maunam caranti vijane na parartha-nisthah</i><br>
<i>naitan vihaya krpanan vimumuksa eko</i><br>
<i>nanyam tvad asya saranam bhramato 'nupasye</i><br>
<p>
   "My dear Lord, there are many saintly persons and sages who are very interested in their own liberation. They live in solitary places like the Himalayan mountains, they do not talk to anyone, and they are always afraid of mixing with ordinary people in the cities and becoming disturbed or maybe even falling down. They think, "Better let me save myself." I regret that these great saintly persons do not come to the cities where people have manufactured a civilization based on constant hard work. Such saints are not very compassionate, but I am anxious for these fallen people who are unnecessarily working so hard simply for the gratification of the senses." (<b></b><i>Bhag.</i> 7.9.44)<p>
   Even if there were some point in working that hard, such people do not know what it is. All they know is the sex urge and the brothels that gratify this urge. However, Prahlada Maharaja has compassion for such people: <i>naitan vihaya krpanan vimumuksa eko.</i> "My Lord, I do not need salvation alone. Unless I take all these fools with me, I shall not go." Thus he refused to go into the kingdom of God without taking all the fallen souls with him. This is a Vaisnava. <i>Nanyam tvad asya saranam bhramato 'nupasye:</i> "I simply want to teach them how to surrender unto You. That's all. That is my goal."<p>
   Surrender is thus emphasized because a Vaisnava knows that as soon as he surrenders, the path is clear.
<p>
<p align=center><i>naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaranyas</i></br>
<i>tvad-virya-gaya na-mahamrta-magna-cittah</i><br>
<p>
   "Somehow or other, let them all bow down before Krsna." This is a very simple method. All one has to do is bow down before Krsna with faith and say, "My Lord Krsna, I was forgetful of You for so long, for so many lives. Now I have come to consciousness of You. please accept me." That is all. If one simply learns this technique and sincerely surrenders himself to the Lord, his path is immediately opened. This is the aim of a real Vaisnava.<p>
   A Vaisnava is always thinking about how the fallen conditioned souls can be delivered and is always involved in making plans to do so. The Gosvamis, the chief disciples of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, were such Vaisnavas, and were thus described by Srinivasa Acarya:
<p>
<p align=center><i>nana-sastra-vicaranaika-nipunau sad-dharma-samsthapakau</i></br>
<i>lokanam hita-karinau tribhuvane manyau saranyakarau</i><br>
<i>radha-krsna-padaravinda-bhajananandena mattalikau</i><br>
<i>vande rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau sri-jiva-gopalakau</i><br>
<p>
   "The six Gosvamis--Sri Sanatana Gosvami, Sri Rupa Gosvami, Sri Raghunatha Bhatta Gosvami, Sri Raghunatha Dasa Gosvami, Sri Jiva Gosvami and Sri Gopala Bhatta Gosvami--are very expert in scrutinizingly studying all the revealed scriptures with the purpose of establishing eternal religious principles for the benefit of all human beings. They are always absorbed in the mood of the <i>gopis</i> and are engaged in the transcendental loving service of Radha and Krsna."<p>
   With similar Vaisnava compassion, Pariksit Maharaja told Sukadeva Gosvami: "You have just described the different types of hellish life. Now, tell me how those who are suffering can be delivered. Kindly explain this to me." <i>Adhuneha maha-bhaga yathaiva narakan narah nanogra-yatanan neyat tan me.</i> The word <i>narah</i> refers to human beings, or those who are fallen. <i>Narakan narah nanogra-yatanan neyat tan me:</i> "How can they be delivered from their fierce miseries and horrible pains?" That is typical of a Vaisnava heart. Maharaja Pariksit also said, "Somehow or other they have fallen down to a hellish life, but that does not mean that they should remain in that condition. There must be some means by which they can be delivered, so kindly explain those means."<p>
   Sukadeva Gosvami replied:
<p>
<p align=center><i>na ced ihaivapacitim yathamhasah</i></br>
<i>krtasya kuryan mana-ukta-panibhih</i><br>
<i>dhruvam sa vai pretya narakan upaiti</i><br>
<i>ye kirtita me bhavatas tigma-yatanah</i><br>
<p>
   "Yes, I have already described various hellish conditions typical of a severe and painful life. The point is that one has to counteract such a life." (<b></b><i>Bhag.</i> 6.1.7)<p>
   How can this be done? There are various ways in which sinful activities can be committed. One is by the mind. If a person thinks of committing some sinful activity and thus makes a plan--"I shall kill that man"--that is also considered to be sinful. When the mind is thinking, feeling and willing, then there is action. In certain areas of the United States, a dog owner is responsible according to law if his dog barks at someone passing on the road. Although the dog simply barks, the owner is held responsible. The dog is not responsible because it is an animal, but because the owner of the animal has made the dog his best friend, he is responsible by law. Similarly, just as the barking of a dog may be considered unlawful, offensive speech may also be considered sinful, for it is just like barking. The point is that sinful activities can be committed in so many ways--one may think of them, or one may speak sinfully, or one may actually commit a sin. In any case, they are all considered sinful activities. <i>Dhruvam sa vai pretya narakan upaiti:</i> One has to suffer punishment for such activities.<p>
   People do not believe in a next life because they want to avoid botheration and punishment, but the next life cannot be avoided. It is a well known fact that we must act according to law, or we will be punished. If one commits criminal activities, the state will punish him. Sometimes, however, a criminal may escape punishment by the state, but this is not the case with God's law. One can cheat others, commit theft and hide, thereby saving himself from the punishment of the state, but one cannot save himself from the superior law, the law of nature. It is very difficult because there are many witnesses: the daylight is witness, the moonlight is witness, and Krsna is the supreme witness. Thus one cannot say, "I am committing this sin, but no one can see me." Krsna is the supreme witness sitting within the heart, and He not only notes what one is thinking and doing, but He also gives the living entity facility. If one wants to do something in order to satisfy his senses, Krsna gives all facility. This is stated in <i>Bhagavad-gita. Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivistah:</i> "I am sitting in everyone's heart." <i>Mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca:</i> "From Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness."<p>
   In this way Krsna gives us a chance. If we want Krsna, He will give us a chance to have Him, and if we don't want Krsna, He will give us a chance to forget Him. If we want to enjoy life forgetting Krsna, forgetting God, Krsna will give us all facility so that we can forget, but if we want to enjoy life in Krsna consciousness, Krsna will give us the chance to make progress. That is up to us. If we think that we can be happy without Krsna consciousness, Krsna does not object to that. <i>Yathecchasi tatha kuru.</i> After advising Arjuna, He simply said, "Now I have explained everything to you. Whatever you desire, you can do." Arjuna replied immediately, <i>karisye vacanam tava:</i> "Now I shall execute Your order." That is Krsna consciousness.<p>
   God does not interfere with our tiny independence. If we want to act according to the order of God, then He will help us. Even if one falls down sometimes, if one becomes sincere, thinking, "From this time I shall remain Krsna conscious and execute His orders," then Krsna will help him. In all respects, even if one falls down, he will be excused and given more intelligence. This intelligence will say, "Don't do this. Now go on with your duty." But if one wants to forget Krsna, if he wants to become happy without Krsna, the Lord will give so many chances to enable him to forget Him life after life.<p>
   Pariksit Maharaja said: "It is not that if I say there is no God that there will be no God or that I will not be responsible for what I do." The atheists deny God due to their sinful activities. If they thought that there were a God, they would shudder at the thought of punishment; therefore they deny His existence. When rabbits are attacked by larger animals, they close their eyes and think, "I am not going to be killed," but they are killed anyway. Similarly, we may deny the existence of God and His laws, but still God and His laws are there. In the high court, one may say, "I don't care for the law of the government," but he will be forced to accept the government law. If one denies the state law, he will be put into prison and duly punished. Similarly, one may foolishly decry the existence of God by various means ("There is no God," or "I am God"), but ultimately one is responsible for all his actions, both good and bad.<p>
   According to the law of <i>karma,</i> or the law governing activities, if we act properly and perform pious activities, we are awarded by good fortune, and if we act sinfully we have to suffer. Therefore Sukadeva Gosvami says:
<p>
<p align=center><i>tasmat puraivasv iha papa-niskrtau</i></br>
<i>yate ta mrtyor avipadyatatmana</i><br>
<i>dosasya drstva guru-laghavam yatha</i><br>
<i>bhisak cikitseta rujam nidana-vit</i><br>
<p>
   "You should know that you are responsible, and, according to the gravity of your sins, you should accept some type of atonement as described in the <i>sastras</i> or scriptures."(<b></b><i>Bhag.</i> 6.1.8)<p>
   Just as doctors are sought when one is diseased, according to the Vedic way of life there is a class of <i>brahmanas</i> to whom one should go for prescribed atonement for sinful activities. There are different types of atonement. If a person commits a sin and counteracts it by penance, that is atonement. There are examples of this in the Christian Bible. Sukadeva says that one has to execute the prescribed atonement according to the gravity of his sinful activities. A physician may prescribe an expensive medicine or a cheap medicine according to the gravity of the disease. For a headache, he may simply prescribe an aspirin, but if there is some severe illness he may prescribe a surgical operation which will cost thousands of dollars. Similarly, sinful activities are diseases, so one should follow the prescribed cures to become healthy.<p>
   By accepting the chain of birth and death, the soul accepts a diseased condition. The soul is not subject to birth, death or disease because it is pure spirit. In <i>Bhagavad-gita</i> Krsna says that a soul has no birth (<i>na jayate</i>) and that it has no death (<i>mriyate</i>).
<p>
<p align=center><i>na jayate mriyate va kadacin</i></br>
<i>nayam bhutva bhavita va na bhuyah</i><br>
<i>ajo nityah sasvato 'yam purano</i><br>
<i>na hanyate hanyamane sarire</i><br>
<p>
   "For the soul there is never birth or death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (<b></b><a href="http://www.asitis.com/2/20.html" target="links">Bg. 2.20</a>)<p>
   Modern civilization is in dire need of an educational system to give people instructions on what happens after death. In actuality the present educational system is most defective because unless one knows what happens after death, one dies like an animal. An animal does not know that he is subject to death or that he is going to have to take another body. Human life, however, should be more elevated. One should not simply be interested in the animalistic functions of eating, sleeping, defending and mating. A living entity may have an abundant supply of food for eating, or many nice buildings for sleeping, or good arrangements for sex life, or a good defense to protect him, but this does not mean that he is a human being. A civilization which is based on these activities should be known to be animalistic. Since animals are also interested in these functions, what is the difference between human life and animal life if a human being does not go beyond them?<p>
   The distinction can be made when a human being becomes inquisitive and asks, "Why have I been put into this miserable condition? Is there any remedy for it? Is there perpetual eternal life? I do not want to die, nor do I want to suffer. I want to live very happily and peacefully. Is there a chance for this? What is the method or science by which this can be achieved?" When these questions are asked, and steps are taken to answer them, our human civilization is the result. If the questions never arise, then that civilization should be known as animalistic. Animals and animalistic human beings are simply interested in continuing the process of eating, sleeping, mating and defending, but in actuality this process is forced to break down. The fact is that there is no real defense because no one can protect himself from the hands of cruel death. For instance, Hiranyakasipu, who wanted to live forever, underwent severe austerities, but he was foiled in the end by the Lord Himself in the form of a lion-man, Nrsimhadeva, who killed Hiranyakasipu with His claws. So-called scientists are now claiming that some time in the future we shall stop death by scientific methods, but this is simply another crazy utterance. Stopping death is not at all possible. We may make great advancements in scientific knowledge, but there is no scientific solution to the fourfold miseries of birth, death, old age and disease.<p>
   One who is intelligent should be eager to solve these four principal problems--birth, death, old age and disease. No one wants to die, but there is no remedy. Everyone has to die. Everyone is very anxious to stop the skyrocketing increase of population by employing contraceptive methods, but still birth is going on. There is no stoppage of death, and there is no stoppage of birth. Nor can diseases be stopped, nor can old age, despite all of the latest inventions in medicine.<p>
   One might think that he has solved all the problems of his life, but where is the solution to these four problems of birth, death, old age and disease? That solution is Krsna consciousness. Every one of us is giving up his body at every moment, and the last phase of giving up this body is called death. But Krsna also says:
<p>
<p align=center><i>janma karma ca me divyam</i></br>
<i>evam yo vetti tattvatah</i><br>
<i>tyaktva deham punar janma</i><br>
<i>naiti mam eti so 'rjuna</i><br>
<p>
   "One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna." (<b></b><a href="http://www.asitis.com/4/9.html" target="links">Bg. 4.9)</a><p>
   What happens to such a person? <i>Mam eti--</i>He returns to Krsna. If we are to go to Krsna, we must prepare a spiritual body. That preparation is the process of Krsna consciousness. If one keeps himself in Krsna consciousness, he gradually prepares his next body, a spiritual body, which will carry him immediately to Krsnaloka, Krsna's abode, and he will become happy living there perpetually and blissfully.
<p>
Matchless Gift Chapter 2 by<br>
His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada	Srila Prabhupada	2000-08-12	50	/RealAudio/66/66_024_B.ram	|	A	D	ISKCON	50	The True Hare Krishna Movement	Regrettably, after the departure of Srila Prabhupada in 1977, the institution he founded, ISKCON, became embroiled in a phenomenal amount of negative publicity and scandals. This can be entirely traced to the fact that false gurus have taken over the movement posing as successors and spiritual leaders, although not qualified in the least. Religious propagandists, fakes and unqualified students rushed in to imitate their master.	/Articles/2000/08/00074.html	/images/Prabhupada/PrabhupadaLookingAtBhagavatam.jpg			width="199" height="254"	right	deity, Vrndavana, Vrndaban, Hare Krishna,Bhaktivedanta Swami,Prabhupada, Bhagavad Gita	<P>The Hare Krishna Movement technically "began" about 500 years ago, its inaugurator being Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the 16th-century mystic, scholar and social reformer, who is accepted by Vedic scriptural evidence to be the Supreme God Himself incarnated on earth to preach the way of Bhakti or love of God. </P>

<P>The essential scripture for the movement, the famous 5,000-year-old <i>Bhagavad Gita,</i> spoken by Lord Krishna, God Himself, explains that religious principles, although beginningless, are revived periodically by Him or His authorized representative only, the purpose remaining the same, although due to time, culture and circumstances, the details emphasized may vary.</p>

<p>The final instruction of Lord Krishna in the <i>Gita</i> is that everyone should surrender unto Him only and make Him the ultimate goal of life. This is clearly stated and requires no "interpretation". Unfortunately, the <i>Gita</i> is almost invariably mistranslated by unscrupulous persons with no actual knowledge of or devotion to Krsna, who consequently deviate the student's attention to something else entirely.</p>

<P>The Hare Krishna Movement's founder and acarya, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the guru of ISKCON, has written elaborate English commentaries on <i>Bhagavad-Gita</i> and other sacred Vedic scriptures which have been translated into almost every language. </P>

<P>Prabhupada, being a bona fide "guru" directly in the line of Sri Chaitanya, does not distort the <i>Gita's</i> clear message of devotional theism. He therefore wrote <a href="http://www.asitis.com/" target="_blank">Bhagavad-Gita as it is</a>. Hence his writings, which have astounded literary communities worldwide, are used as standard textbooks in numerous educational institutions.</P>

<P>Unfortunately after Prabhupada's demise in 1977, some of his leading disciples, such as <a href="http://members.tripod.de/gbc/themes/books1.htm" target="_blank">Jayadvaita Swami, have unauthorizedly changed and edited</a> many of Srila Prabhupada's original translations and books, thus perverting and misinterpreting the real meaning and rendering them useless. Therefore the readers might be warned to only read the original pre 1977 books of Srila Prabhupada. [Editors note: the BBT continued to print Srila Prabhupada's original books long after 1977. The first unauthorized BBT book was Jayadvaita's <i>Bhagavad-gita</i> which was published in 1983. Apart from this book the BBT continued to print Srila Prabhupada's original books right through to the mid 90's at least. It's only in the past five years we have seen the publication of so many contaminated books by the BBT. I estimate that at least 95 percent of all Srila Prabhupada's books ever printed by the BBT are completely bona fide, authorized original books by Srila Prabhupada. Even now many of the small books printed by the BBT are still the originals, at least last time I checked. However, unfortunately the ISKCON Bhagavad-gita and many books printed by the BBT in the last five years are full of thousands of unauthorized changes which destroy the authority of the books and render then completely useless.] Otherwise students might be mislead by <a href="http://members.tripod.de/gbc/themes/charu.htm" target="_blank">bogus philosophy</a> preached by Iskcons false successor gurus. </P>

<P>Regrettably, after the departure of Srila Prabhupada in 1977, the institution he founded, ISKCON, became embroiled in a phenomenal amount of negative publicity and scandals. This can be entirely traced to the fact that false gurus have taken over the movement posing as successors and spiritual leaders, although not qualified in the least. Religious propagandists, fakes and unqualified students rushed in to imitate their master. </P>

<P>The <a href="http://members.tripod.de/gbc/tamal.htm" target="_blank">false Iskcon gurus</a> who succeeded Prabhupada theoretically accepted the premise that to find God, the false ego must be defeated. And yet with few exceptions they had huge materialistic egos themselves. Religious scholars say that a crisis occurs when the spiritual leader of a religious movement dies. The success or failure of the movement depends upon how the new successors spread the teachings of the founder. </P>

<P>To a large degree, the Krishna Consciousness Society is in shambles because too many new gurus did not want to spread Prabhupada's teachings; they wanted<B> to be</B> Prabhupada. Cheap imitators. Because of that, the Hare Krishna movement degenerated into a number of competing cult members that have known murder, the abuse of women and <a href="http://members.tripod.de/gbc/black/childabu.htm" target="_blank">child molestation</a>, drug dealing, and swindles that would impress a <a href="http://members.tripod.de/gbc/themes/hk-mafia.htm" target="_blank">Mafia don</a>. </P>

<P>Iskcon leaders have heavily deviated after Prabhupada's death. They grabbed for power, money and disciples. They were the inner club, heirs apparent to the assets of Prabhupadas movement. Disregarding his instructions, they put perverts and sexual deviants in charge of the movement. </P>

<P>They thought, "What an opportunity! Prabhupada is dead. Now we can carve up the world for ourselves and control the millions of dollars in assets he left, plus control the thousands of followers who are flocking to him, and thereby earn many more <a href="http://members.tripod.de/gbc/themes/hk-mafia.htm" target="_blank"> millions of dollars</a>!"</P>

<P>Unfortunately, when the <I>acarya</I> disappears, rogues and nondevotees take advantage and immediately begin to introduce unauthorized principles in the name of so-called <I>swamis</I>, <I>yogis</I>, philanthropists, welfare workers and so on... The <I>acarya</I>, the authorized representative of the Supreme Lord, establishes these principles, but when he disappears, things once again become disordered through unqualified disciples and bogus successor gurus.</p>

<p>The exploits of such false gurus as Harikesha, Bhavananda, Hansadutta, Bhagavan, Jayatirtha, Kirtanananda, and Rameswara are legendary and extremely embarrassing. They are especially reprehensible because they were GBC-leaders and their GBC peers sanctioned and condoned their activities for many years at the expense of Srila Prabhupada's Movement's reputation, assets, disciples and mission. </P>

<P>These immature and familiar Westerners with no proper training, failed to comprehend the exalted nature of the pure, liberated <I>shaktaveshya-avatara</I> in their midst. They thought that by imitating his external dress they could become like him. They had no idea who He was/is. Power-hungry for name, fame, distinction and adoration they artificially posed as successors and took over the movement by politics, disregarding Srila Prabhupada's <a href="http://members.tripod..de/gbc/themes/july9.htm" target="_blank">instructions</a> and <a href="http://www.irg.zetnet.co.uk/fo.html" target="_blank">last will</a>...</P>
<P>For their own glorification they belittled Prabhupada in the "false biography" called the <a href="http://members.tripod.de/gbc/weedtxt.htm" target="_blank">LILAMRITA - planting the seed</a>, in which all events are carefully "laundered" to protect the guilty and to misrepresent Srila Prabhupada.</p>

<p>But this is the story of how the destructive metamorphosis happened; of how good became evil; of how false gurus claim to embody Krishna's mercy but behave without mercy. And no power, as we will discover, corrupts as absolutely as fanatical religious power. </P>

<P>"Hare Krishna" is a cultural, philosophical and religious movement which is intended for the reformation of the entire human society, but false successor gurus have turned Iskcon into a perverted sect which has to be reformed itself first. For this reason the <a href="http://www.irg.zetnet.co.uk/editorial.html" target="_blank">Iskcon Reform Group</a> (IRG) was formed. </P>

<P>Since 1987, reformers in the movement have worked to purge ISKCON of the horrors committed by <a href="http://members.tripod.de/gbc/black/bogus4.htm" target="_blank">false successor gurus</a>. They hope to restore the spiritually powerful principles on which the movement was founded, but Iskcon leaders are so quick to ex-communicate and banish anyone who preaches contrary to their corrupted leadership and bogus philosophy. </P>

<P>Dissenters can still be banned, beaten, shot or otherwise intimidated as described in the book <a href="http://members.tripod.de/iskgone/monkey/monkey.htm" target="_blank">Monkey On A Stick</a>". Until this mafia-ism halts, many will prefer to stay away and/or remain anonymous. A class-action-law suit is presently under way to persecute and purge out the criminal elements in the movement. Many devotees are finally waking up.</P>

<P>The recent surfacing of massive evidence that Prabhupada might have been poisoned to death, most likely by a coterie of his ambitious secretaries, who have been, since then, posing as his successor gurus, is to be further investigated. </P>

<P>The 400+ page <a href="http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/3933/19990519.htm" target="_blank">"Someone Has Poisoned Me"</a>, which documents extensive evidence of the poisoning, can be obtained (the publisher requests a donation of $5) from Vedic Village, P.O.B. 28, Efland, NC 27243 (<a href="mailto:rivervillage@mindspring.com" target="_blank">rivervillage@mindspring.com</a>) 1-800-242-0115. </P>



	Urdhvaga dasa	2000-08-11	50	/RealAudio/66/66_024_B.ram	|	A	D	science	50	Dr. Frog Ph.D.	Dr. Frog has spent his whole life in a well. But he has seen so much through the hole in the top of his well! Dr. Frog has experienced many things, he's seen so much. As a result of all of his observation he has been able to come up with his own particular universal view...  He doesn't know there is any more than he has seen. 	/Articles/2000/08/00073.html	/images/Misc/frog.gif			width="85" height="86"	right	science, Hare Krishna,Bhaktivedanta Swami,Prabhupada, Bhagavad Gita	<P>There are two methods of acquiring knowledge, one is called the descending process and the other is called the ascending process. Krishna consciousness follows the descending process. Perfect knowledge is passed from Krishna to the first spiritual master, Lord Brahma, from Lord Brahma to his son Narada Muni, from Narada to Srila Vyasadeva, then Srila Vyasadeva wrote down all the Vedic scriptures. In this way the perfect knowledge is coming to us through the disciplic succession. This is a perfect source of knowledge because Krishna is all knowing, He knows everything. Whatever Krishna says is not contaminated by the limitations of our material senses.</p>
<p>When we try to present knowledge without taking it from Krishna in the disciplic succession it is always contaminated by four types of defects: we have a tendency to cheat, we are illusioned -- we accept something as a fact which is not actually a fact, our senses are imperfect and we make mistakes. Because all scientific research is riddled with these faults it is all imperfect knowledge. However, if we take the knowledge coming down from the perfect source, Krishna, via the unbroken chain of disciplic succession, it is perfect. We don't need to do anything except accept the knowledge, all the research work has already been done. </P>

<p>All knowledge exists in the <i>Vedas</i>, the ancient scriptures of India. The scriptures of India are called Veda and Veda means knowledge so in the Veda we can find knowledge about every conceivable subject matter, because all knowledge is there. There is  <i>Dana Veda</i> -- the science of warfare, the <i>Jyoti Veda</i> -- the science of astronomy and astrology, the <i>Ayur Veda</i> -- the medical science. There are also Vedic scriptures describing architecture, the construction of aeroplanes and space ships, even interplanetary travel -- everything is there in the Vedic knowledge. 

<p>Any knowledge we see scattered across the planet at the moment is simply fragments of this Vedic knowledge. Five thousand years ago the Vedic culture was spread all over the planet. At that time the earth was being ruled by a king called Maharaja Pariksit. Under his rule the whole planet was following the Vedic culture. Since then the planet has become more and more divided. We can still see examples of countries being split for political reasons. Basically the Vedic culture has been lost, but there are still remnants. You will find many similarities in different cultures which, from our Western point of view, seem to have developed independently. There are also many similarities in languages. This is because originally the one culture, the Vedic culture, was spread all over the world.</P>

<p>I have described the descending process of knowledge, knowledge being passed down from a higher authority. The other process for acquiring knowledge is the ascending process. This is the method our scientists use. They try to understand things around them by the perceptions of their senses. Using information gathered through their senses they develop hypothesis to explain the observed phenomena. This process is not perfect because our sense perceptions are themselves imperfect. Our senses only give a small sample of the actual data. For example the eyes can only see within a restricted range of the spectrum. There are light waves above the colours we can see and the are also light waves below the colours we can see. We can only see one small band. We can also only see a short distance, after some distance everything becomes blurred and indistinct. In this way the information coming through our eyes is not perfect because we can only see a very limited amount of the actual information. Similar limitations apply to all our other senses. Not only are the senses imperfect, but I am also imperfect. If I have a hypothesis which I am anxious to prove the tendency is for me to cheat. Because I want some recognition by proving my particular theory I will tend to ignore the evidence that doesn't support my theory and I will report the evidence which does. This tendency to cheat is within us all. Therefore in every way our so-called scientific knowledge is imperfect. </P>

<p>The analogy has been given of Dr. Frog. A frog often lives in a well. The well is one meter wide, it's in the middle of a field and above the well is a tree. Our Dr. Frog has spent his whole life in that well. He has no experience beyond that one meter diameter well. But he has seen so much through the hole in the top of his well! Sometimes he sees nice blue sky and trees with green leaves, sometimes he sees clouds in the sky, sometimes  rain comes through the top of his well, sometimes the leaves from the tree fall into his well. So Dr. Frog has experienced many things, he's seen so much. As a result of all of his observation he has been able to come up with his own particular universal view, "The universe according to Dr. Frog." He doesn't know there is any more than he has seen. He has only seen what is visible through the hole in the top of his well, so he thinks that's all there is, he thinks that's the universe. He has developed so much philosophy, so many theories to describe what is happening in his universe. But what can he see? So what is the value of his conclusions? His conclusions are useless. The difficulty is if somebody comes from outside to tell him about the actual universe he won't be able to understand it because it's outside the scope of his world.</p>

<P>One day another frog hopped into Dr. Frog's well. This frog had not been confined to a one metre wide well for his whole life, he had travelled quite a bit, he'd even seen the Pacific Ocean. So he tried to explain to Dr. Frog, "My dear friend, I have seen such a vast mass of water, it is called the Pacific Ocean." So Dr. Frog said, "Yes. Please explain it to me." But he was thinking in terms of the water in his well, so he thought, "Perhaps it's twice as big as my well, perhaps three times as big as my well, maybe it is even five times bigger." In this way he tried to understand the Pacific Ocean but it was impossible because he can't even conceive of the greatness of the Pacific Ocean.

<p>Our scientists are something like Dr. Frog. They are confident they have a clear understanding of the universe around them. After all they have such big expensive equipment, they get so many big grants from the government and they have so many respectable predecessor scientists who have put forward so many nice hypothesises which they now accept as facts. They think they are well situated, but what have they seen? We know this planet is only one of so many planets in the universe. Even within this universe we are insignificant. The creation of the Supreme Lord consists of not just one universe but of unlimited universes. In the Vedic literature the number of universes is compared to a bucket full of mustard seeds. If you look at a mustard seed you will find it is a very small seed. A whole bucket of mustard seeds is a huge quantity, millions and millions. So universes are clustered together like this and our planet earth is only one tiny fragment of one of the smallest universes. But our "Dr. Frog" scientists think they understand how things are going on. They think one day they will be able to control everything. One day they will be able to make it rain when they want, they will make man live forever, they will be able to do anything they like. However, in reality, their knowledge is comparable to Dr. Frog's knowledge of his universe. Of course there may be some glimmer of truth in some of the scientific theories but they are all full of defects: the tendency to make mistakes, the tendency to cheat, the problem of being illusioned and the difficulty of the senses being imperfect. These defects are present in all of our so-called scientific theories. </P>

<p>In reality Western scientific knowledge is useless. They have put forward a description of the universe based on the planets orbiting around the sun and through our experimental observations it appears the planets do orbit around the sun or that the sun orbits around the planets. Because we really don't know what our position is in the universe there are many models which are equally valid in that they explain the observed evidence. Nowadays we only seriously consider one model, the heliocentric or sun-centred model, but in the past scientists and philosophers also considered geocentric or earth-centred models. Either model could be correct, there is no way of proving conclusively one or the other by our experience because we can't really tell what this earth is doing -- it may be moving or it may be stationary. We look into the sky and we see so many other planets and stars moving, but everything is moving relative to everything else. So we don't really know what is moving. We are right in the middle of it all, we can't really see what's happening. </p>

<P>If you're very small and inside a very large piece of machinery it might be difficult to understand what the machine is doing. If, however, you are in a position where you can see the whole machine, you can see what is going into it and what is coming out at the other end, it's not difficult to understand what it's doing. Another example concerns a group of blind men. If a group of blind men come across an elephant in the jungle and they try to discover what it is. One blind man takes the elephant's leg and he says, "It's just like a tree trunk," another one takes the trunk of the elephant and he says, "No. It's just like a big hose." Another one takes a different part of the elephant. In this way they can't understand the elephant in its entirety. They can only understand fragments of the elephant. One understands the foot, one the leg, one the trunk, one the ear, but they can't put all the pieces together and understand what the elephant is. They have no ability to see the elephant in full.

<p>From our position in the universe we can't see it in a very broad way, we can only see some small features, we have fragmental knowledge only. There are many things in the universe we can't see at all. If we go back to Dr. Frog, he can speculate on so many things about what is going on in the universe but there are so many things he can't see at all. There could be a tractor plowing the field but he can only hear the noise coming into his well. He can speculate, "What is this noise?" He has heard a fly or a bee making a similar but softer noise so he may think the noise is coming from a big fly or a big bee that he can't see. That's alright, it's a reasonable hypothesis considering his experience, he has never seen a tractor and he will never see on either, the tractor won't come into his well. He will just sometimes hear the noise when the farmer is plowing the field, that's all.</p>

<p>Our scientists view the universe in a similar way, they see little hints of what's going on but they cant see the "big picture". This is the difficulty with all our Western knowledge, it's all speculation, it's all based on fragmental pieces of knowledge -- they guess all the missing parts. It's like the fossil experts, they just find a bone and from one bone they build a whole skeleton, they just imagine it, more or less. The tendency to cheat is there, they are prepared to build a whole skeleton based on one bone just to support their theories. </p>

<P>All information we receive through modern science is useless, even though there may be a glimmer of truth here and there, it's all contaminated by the tendency to cheat, the problems of being illusioned, the imperfect senses and the tendency to make mistakes. You may well ask, "If all the scientific knowledge we have is useless then where can we find real knowledge?" The answer is we get knowledge from Krishna via the disciplic succession. The Vedic scriptures present scientific knowledge and the cream of all the Vedic scriptures is <i>Srimad-Bhagavatam.</i> Srimad Bhagavatam contains all scientific knowledge. It describes knowledge like the structure of the universe, how the child develops within the womb of the mother, how time is calculated from the movement of the atoms, atomic physics, it describes everything -- all knowledge is there both material and spiritual. 

<p>If you want to become a real scientist, a real expert, a knowledgable person, you should throw all your Western science books out the window and simply study the <i>Srimad-Bhagavatam.</i> </p>

<i>If someone simply continuously reads <i>Srimad-Bhagavatam</i> he will become completely expert in all aspects of knowledge. No other literature is required, there is no knowledge that can not to be found in the <i>Bhagavatam.</i> It includes everything. Therefore I humbly request you to make your life successful by reading the <i>Srimad-Bhagavatam</i> and questioning knowledge coming from the Western so-called scientific system. We shouldn't blindly accept things. It's not just because it's written in the science book it's a fact. It's not a fact -- they present so much nonsense, so much speculation, it's all useless. If we want real scientific knowledge we have to get it from Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Supreme Scientist. Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.</p></i>
<p>
	Madhudvisa dasa		2000-08-11	50	/RealAudio/66/66_024_B.ram	|	A	D	guru	50	Questions About Initiation and Preaching	When someone is initiated they have received transcendental knowledge and their past karma is burned up, they must be a bit like a new born baby. Why is it they still appear and behave the same and even fall down, where has that divine knowledge gone?	/Articles/2000/08/00072.html				width="85" height="86"	right	initiation, guru, acarya, spiritual master, Hare Krishna,Bhaktivedanta Swami,Prabhupada, Bhagavad Gita	<p>Dear Prabhu </p>
<p>Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!</p>

<p>It's wonderful to receive your questions as it gives me a chance to think about how to answer them. It's inspiring to both ask questions about Krishna and also to answer them. It helps us both to make some spiritual advancement.</p>

<p>"So when some one is initiated then they have received transcendental
knowledge & their past karma is burned up, they must be a bit like a new
born baby, why is it they still appear & behave the same and even fall down,
where has that divine knowledge gone?"</p>


<p>It's true that at the time of being initiated by a pure devotee one's past karma is burnt up. But initiation is not such a cheap thing. Sometimes devotees go through the formalities of initiation, but they do not actually surrender to the spiritual master or even strictly follow the regulative principles or chant 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra daily. So they are not really initiated at all. Also sometimes devotees take initiaiton from "gurus" who themselves are not pure devotees so how can they expect to be purified if even the "guru's" heart is not pure? </p>

<p>Initiation, becoming a disciple, means to accept the discipline of the spiritual master. So if we do not agree to follow even the most basic things like chanting 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra daily and following the four regulative principles there is no initiation.</p>

<p>Another point is Krishna has given us a little independence. So we can always choose to reject Krishna and Srila Prabhupada and try to enjoy in the material world independently. So even if one is properly initiated, by bad association, he can become deviated from the path, and for some time fall back into maya. But it is temporary. Any devotee who has actually tasted even a little bit of the transcendental pleasure one gets from serving Krishna can never be satisfied with the momentary so-called pleasures offered by the material world... Ultimately any one who has done any sincere service to Krishna and Srila Prabhupada will have to come back to Krishna consciousness. </p>


<p>"What is the best thing to say to people who do not accept
reincarnation, how can you convince them that reincarnation is a fact?"</p>

<p>Many people are very much attached to sense gratification in the material world and for them to believe in reincarnation would mean they would have to accept the eternality of the soul and the next life and responsibility for their actions. They would have to accept they will suffer for their sinful actions in the future. So they do not want to accept this therefore no matter how logically and clearly we explain to the simple facts of karma and reincarnation, they refuse to accept it. We can't make people accept these things. All we can do is present the knowledge and some people will accept and some will not. </p>

<p>To preach we have to find those people who are a little interested to hear about Krishna and speak about Krishna to them. The preacher devotee has to differentiate between three types of people: the innocent, the envious and the devotees. He preaches to the innocent, avoids the envious and associates with the devotees. This is because if we preach Krishna consciousness to someone who is an envious demon they just become more envious and more offensive. It is said that if one feeds milk and bananas to a snake the snake just uses it to store up more and more poison which he will use in the future to bite the person feeding him... That is the nature of the envious persons. So we do not try very much to preach to people who are not interested in hearing what we have to say, however, we want to help them. So we have to help them by letting them taste prasadam and letting them hear the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. </p>

<p>To be interested in hearing about Krishna is not an ordinary thing. Most people are not interested in hearing about Krishna. It requires some piety. And that can be developed if the people hear the Hare Krishna mantra and eat Krishna prasadam. That is why we are the "sankirtana" movement. Our business is to perform sankirtana, to chant Hare Krishna, so everyone can get the chance of hearing the Hare Krishna mantra chanted by devotees and that will purify their hearts and they will become interested in hearing about Krishna, then we can preach to them like anything and they will accept reincarnation and karma and everything else.</p>

<p>Srila Prabhupada's spiritual master Srila Bhaktsiddhanta Saraswati Thakura extended the definition of "Sankirtana" to include the printing press so book distribution is also sankirtana. Prabhupada said his books are recorded chanting and when the people read them they are hearing the recorded chanting. So book distribution enables the general public to hear directly from Srila Prabhupada, a pure devotee of Krishna. And hearing from a pure devotee is the most powerful spiritual purifying process. That is why distributing Srila Prabhupada's books is so important.</p>

<p>In my case I became completely convinced about Krishna consciousness and karma and reincarnation and everything else simply by reading Srila Prabhupada's books and so many other devotees have also. Before coming in contact with Srila Prabhupada I had no real idea about spiritual life at all and did not really believe in karma, reincarnation, etc, but Srila Prabhupada explains everything so clearly and logically in his books and presents Krishna consciousness as a very logical scientific process. This presentation was very attractive to me.</p>

<p>So a very good way of interesting people in Krishna consciousness is to somehow inspire them to read some of Srila Prabhupada's books. Even 'demons' can be encouraged to read Srila Prabhupada's books and they will become purified. Even if one does not believe in Krishna or reincarnation, if he sees some very enthusiastic devotees chanting Hare Krishna and obviously very happy he will become curious and wonder what it is that has made them so happy. There are four types of people who come to spiritual life [catur viha bhajate mam jnana sukritino arjuna arto...] "O best among the Bharatas [Arjuna], four kinds of pious men render devotional service unto me--the distressed, the desirer of wealth, the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the absolute. [<a href="http://www.asitis.com/7/16.html" target="links"> bg 7.16</a>] It is a very important verse for a preacher to understand and so is the next verse [<a href="http://www.asitis.com/7/17.html" target="links">Bg 7.17</a>] if we read and understand these two verses and Srila Prabhupada'a purports the preaching process will be easier. If we know which people will accept devotional service and which people will not it makes preaching easier.</p>

<p>Of course a devotee wants to engage everyone in Krishna consciousness and he will find the ways and means to even engage big demons in Krishna's service. Even though Krishna says "don't preach to them, they will just get angry." Still the devotee will try to find a way to engage even the biggest demon in Krishna's service.</p>


<p>"Regarding first & second initiation, devotees generally say they are
initiated or not, but no one seems to enquire about 2nd initiation, it makes
me wonder how many devotees are 2nd initiated disciples.</p>


<p>As we said before, initiation is not a very cheap thing, it mean accepting the discipline of the guru. And in any case initiation is only the beginning. If you look the word up in the dictionary it will say something like beginning. So the initiation is only the beginning of ones devotional life. It is a serious commitment by the devotee that he will strictly follow the process of Krishna consciousness under the instruction of his spiritual master. But if he takes initiation but does not surrender to his spiritual master there is actually no initiation at all. </p>

<p>Also, these days, so many are "initiated" by "gurus" who themselves are not even pure devotees. So that sort of initiation is not at all the same as being initiated by a pure devotee. If the spiritual master's heart is not even free from all dirty things how can a disciple of such a bogus guru expect his heart to become purified on initiation?</p>

<p>Even if one has taken initiation from Srila Prabhupada that is no guarantee he is actually initiated. We all have free will. Unless we actually surrender to the spiritual master, even if we had lots of personal association with Srila Prabhupada and accepted formal initiation from him, if we don't actually surrender to him, there is no initiation at all.</p>

<p>Thank you very much for the questions. I hope this is of some use to you and please write with more questions.</p>

<p>All glories to your service. Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!</p>

<p>Your servant</p>

<p>Madhudvisa dasa</p>

	Madhudvisa dasa	2000-08-10	50	/RealAudio/66/66_024_B.ram	|	A	D	temples	50	Spirit From Stone--The Story of the Krishna-Balarama Deities of Vrndavana	About two A.M. I was awakened by a terrific uproar.  All the peacocks in Vrndavana seemed to be trumpeting their piercing cries, producing waves of sound that swept across miles of holy land to the other side of town, echoing back and forth.  I rose, dressed, and went outside to see what was going on.  Lo and behold, the truck with Krishna and Balarama had pulled in!	/Articles/2000/08/00071.html	/images/Temples/KrsnaBalaramaDeities.jpg			width="350" height="125"	center	deity, Vrndavana, Vrndaban, Hare Krishna,Bhaktivedanta Swami,Prabhupada, Bhagavad Gita	<P>I was in Mayapur, in what is now West Bengal, when I received a letter from His Holiness Gurudasa Swami asking me to go to Jaipur to see how the carving of the twelve Deities for the Krishna-Balarama Temple was coming along.  When I arrived in Jaipur, the sculptor let me stay at his home along with the twenty-five members of his household--three generations--all of whom helped with the carving.</P>
<P>My first look at the Deities was inspiring.  The two that were almost finished were good, and I suggested only a few small changes--a slight enlargement of the eyes and a change in the cheek structure.  I was going by my personal experience.  Indian sculptors have their own tradition, but much of it has been spoiled by years of catering to modern tastes.  I was trying to stick to the old tradition, where the image is considered beautiful only when it reflects the meditative mood of the sculptor and evokes that same mood in the onlooker.  There are also strict rules about proportion, but they are secondary.  A small deviation in the rules can remain as long as the Deity has the proper mood.</P>

<P>After instructing the sculptor on the few changes I wanted made, I saw two rough chunks of marble--one white and the other black--that were to become the Deities of Balarama and Krishna.  I was spellbound.  The two brothers were being carved in Their characteristic shapes, and just for fun the sculptors had put Them together the way They would appear on the altar, with Balarama's elbow raised up to lean on Krishna's shoulder and Krishna's arms positioned to hold His flute. Enchanted, I felt I could see right through the white and black marble to the finished Deities inside.</P>

<P>A few months later, after a short visit to our clay modeling workshop in Bengal, I returned to Jaipur.  This time I watched the sculptors finish all the Deities except the one of Srila Prabhupada.  The first attempt wasn't turning out too well, so I asked them to start over again.  Then I took a train up to Vrndavana to be there when Krishna, Balarama, and the other completed Deities arrived.  They were being driven up on a Golden Jaipur Co. truck named "Krishna," which I thought very auspicious.</P>

<P>About two A.M. on the night the Deities were scheduled to arrive, I was awakened by a terrific uproar.  All the peacocks in Vrndavana seemed to be trumpeting their piercing cries, producing waves of sound that started far off and then swept across miles of holy land to the other side of town, echoing back and forth.  I rose, dressed, and went outside to see what was going on.  Lo and behold, the truck with Krishna and Balarama had pulled in!</P>

<P>The workmen who unloaded the truck the next morning were very nice.  All day long, every day, they'd chant Hare Krishna as they worked, and when some extra service turned up, they'd do it for nothing.  And although their supervisor was a Muslim, he was very concerned about the Deities.  "Be careful, be careful!  Don't break Krishna!" he would shout, perspiring heavily.  The crew of Muslims and Hindus labored side by side, loudly chanting as they carried Krishna, and whenever they put a box down, they would cry out in unison, "All glory to Krishna and Balarlima!"</P>

<P>Next I spent about a month painting the Deities.  The residents of Vrnd5vana soon learned about the new Krishna and Balaramma, and they would come to the window of the room I was working in to catch a glimpse of Them.  But the Deities were always turned away from the window when I was painting, so the eager Vrndavanites would bang on the window grating with their sticks, saying, "I want to see Krishna and Balarama!" But they had to wait.</P>

<P>When the painting was finished, I returned to Bengal for another short visit and then went back to Jaipur a third and final time to supervise the carving of the last Deity--Srila Prabhupada.  The work should have taken four days, but it stretched out to a full month.  Not only was the sculptor very temperamental, but on top of that he spoke only Hindi, which I can't speak.  Although communication was difficult, however, by Krishna's mercy the work turned out nicely.</P>

<P>Later on, in VrndAvana, I was painting the final touches on the Deity of,Srila Prabhupada's spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, when Srila Prabhupada walked into the room to inspect the work.  "Thank you very much," he said to me.  "But one thing," he added in his gentle yet uncompromising way, "the lips should be a little more pink." I gladly changed the color.  After so many months of giving orders to sculptors, it was refreshing to take orders from a pure devotee of the Lord.</P>

	Baradraja dasa	2000-08-09	50	/RealAudio/66/66_024_B.ram	|	A	D	preaching	50	If Only the Busses Were Still Running...	We were dancing so much Sukadeva, the temple president was worried about the floor caving in. What a way to go! I'd never stayed at the temple before but since it was so late I decided to do so...	/Articles/2000/08/00070.html	/images/Misc/rstsp_advertisment.jpg			width="352" height="223"	center	Gauridasa Pandit Radha Damodara travelling sankirtana party, book distribution,Hare Krishna,Bhaktivedanta Swami,Prabhupada, Bhagavad Gita	<p>My association with the Hare Krishna movement started in Seattle in 1973, in a parking lot. I was going towards my car when I was approached by a person who handed me a big <a href="http://www.krsnabook.com" target="links"><strong><i>Krishna Book</i></strong></a>. I was impressed by the pictures a bit but wasn't going to 'buy' the book until the devotee showed me the <a href="http://www.krsnabook.com/george/" target="links"><strong>"Words from George Harrison"</a></strong>. He said this is what <a href="http://www.krishna.org/Articles/2000/07/00031.html" target="links"><strong>The Beatles</strong></a> were into now. Since I was into the Beatles I had to have the book. I gave him $20 and he smiled broadly and handed me another book, the <i>Sri Isopanisad</i>.</p>
<p>I took the book home and later that night opened it up and checked it out. When I saw big words like 'transcendental' etc. I determined that it was 'over my head'. I sat the book down by my bed where it stayed unopened for three months. I was in to the whole drug scene at the time and came home one night high on mescaline. (organic LSD) Since I was 'high' and couldn't sleep I began to look at the cover of the <a href="http://www.krsnabook.com" target="links"><strong><i>Krsna Book</i></strong></a>. After staring for some time Krishna seemed to come alive and smile at me. I was ecstatic. I read about a third of the book that night.</p> 

<p>The next night I was beginning to do the usual 'partying' with my friends when I looked around and felt unsatisfied. I couldn't stop thinking about that <a href="http://www.krsnabook.com" target="links"><strong><i>Krsna Book</i></strong></a> and left to go home and read it. My friends thought I lost it. After reading the whole book I wanted to get more so I went to the temple listed and bought every book they had, about $275 worth.</p>

<p>I started visiting the Seattle Hare Krishna temple for the Sunday Feast. I remember when I was a new guest at the Sunday Feast in 1974. I had never seen a <i>sanyasi</i> before when Visnujana Swami appeared behind me as I gazed out the upstairs window. I heard this deep and loving voice, "Haribol! I'm Visnujana Swami. I'm on my way to a festival in Vancouver and am stopping by for the feast. Please accept my humble obeisances". As I turned to look at him I noticed what an aura was. He was very bright-faced. I had never offered obeisances before and here was a swami offering obeisances to me! Talk about humility! I bowed down with him acting like I knew the prayers. He led an ecstatic <i>kirtan</i> [congregational chanting of the Hare Krishna <i>mantra</i>] and more and more devotees were showing up. He did <i>bhajans</i> [songs about Krishna] until about midnight at the temple. Everytime he stopped the devotees begged him to chant some more.</p>

<p>We were dancing so much Sukadeva, the temple president was worried about the floor caving in. What a way to go! I'd never stayed at the temple before but since it was so late I decided to do so. I laid down outside of the door where Visnujana was staying. Still excited from the experiences I couldn't sleep. At about 2:30am Visnujana came out to go to the bathroom and noticed me laying there in semi-darkness. His eyes met mine and he said, 'Haribol' in his esoteric voice. I was blissed out again. </p>

<p>I was attending college and working at Boeing at this time. The devotees at the temple told me that I should go to San Francisco Rathayatra because Srila Prabhupada would be going. I decided to take a vacation and headed for San Francisco. When I arrived at the temple I was met at prasadam by Jayananda Prabhu. He asked if I could help out with the carts. I'd come about 10 days early. I agreed to help. I was impressed at his Krishna consciousness. He would be singing as he drove us out to the site. He was always working and feeding everyone <i>prasadam</i>. It was amazing and inspiring for all of us who came in contact with him.</p>

<p>The day for the festival arrived and it appeared as if it was going to rain. When Srila Prabhupada arrived and boarded Lady Subhadra's cart the sky opened up and spotlighted the self-effulgent <i>acharya</i>. Even though I was new and didn't know anything I knew this was special. The day before Visnujana was giving a lecture in the Armenian Hall where all of the visiting devotees were staying. Having impersonal tendencies I was staring at the Deities, Sri Sri Radha Damodara. Damodara had a blue light on Him and I was staring as Visnujana said, "Don't think that these Deities are idols. This is Krishna." Just then a rose fell from Damodara's check. This really hit me. I felt He was communicating this to me and I believed it.</p>

<p>At the festival Srila Prabhupada had given a great short and sweet lecture. He mentioned that the whole world follows America and if we could make America Krishna conscious the whole world would follow and become like Vaikuntha. The crowd roared in ecstasy. The feast was awesome. We, some 10,000, were served out as we sat in huge rows. It was unforgettable. The next day I had packed my bags and was walking out of the hall when I was stopped by Tamal Krishna Goswami. He asked me if I would like to see Srila Prabhupada in his room saying that if I joined their party I could. I said that I was not ready to join. He made another proposal saying that if I just got the hair trimmed around my ears I would be presentable and I could see Srila Prabhupada. I agreed and was led into the bathroom by a smiling devotee, Aja. As he 'trimmed' I felt a few snips on top of my head and demanded to look in the miror. I was shocked to see bald spots. How could I go in public like that? I told him to just shave if off because anything would look better than that. Then I was dressed in dhoti and kopin. New <i>bhakta</i> [devotee] number thirteen! I was very upset and was determined to tell Srila Prabhupada about it when we arrived.</p>

<p>We arrived at Srila Prabhupada's apartment and headed up to his room. We were all given a long-stemmed rose to hand to him. We were told to offer our obeisances but I didn't even know them yet. I was very nervous as my turn approached. My anger was subsiding as I enter the room. Srila Prabhupada was sitting behind a low table gracefully with one leg up. My hand shook as I reached to hand him the rose. stepping back and offering my full dandavats I shook uncontrollably. I was now too overwhelmed to be mad now. As we all settled in and sat down Srila Prabhupada began to speak, "So your all very bright-faced and fortunate to come to Lord Chaitanya's movement. Now that you are fortunate you should make others fortunate. Preach this message of Lord Chaitanya's all over the world."... Srila Prabhupada melted my heart. I decided it was Krishna's arrangement but I wish He would of least let me move out of my apartment in Seattle first!</p>

<p align=center><img src="/images/Misc/rstsp_bus.jpg" width="302" height="134" border=0 align="center"></p>

<p>We boarded the bus and headed out to do a fair in Minot, North Dakota. It was ecstatic cruising down the freeway performing <i>kirtan</i> on the way. We were a shock at times when we stopped. The morning we arrived in Minot we pulled up behind a closed gas station to take our baths with a hose. It was about 4am. All of the sudden a truck pulls around with it's lights on us. We froze like deer starring into the light as the truck backed up and took off. A bit later three cop cars speed to the scene after receiving a report of a UFO landing. We explained ourselves as they scratched their heads wondering if we were for real. (I guess)</p>

<p>We set up at the fair and it went well. We chanting until midnight and our morning program started at 7am. We would fill up the bathrooms with devotees washing their feet in the sinks etc. and shaving our heads. Needless to say it was a culture shock were some of the locals came in. Some turned right around and walked out. </p>

<p>As we chanted people gathered and some were so shocked that they stood there while their beer bottles dropped from their hands. We had a booth where we sold books; incense; posters and etc. making about eight hundred dollars a day. We made about seven more devotees at the fair. The program was so pure it attracted so many souls.</p>

<strong><p>Where are the buses today?</p></strong>

[From Gauridas Pandit's website: <a href="http://members.aol.com/gauridas/" target="links">HARIBOL Home Page</a>]
	Gauridas Pandit dasa	2000-08-08	50	/RealAudio/66/66_024_B.ram	|	R	D	religion	50	Interview with Religion Editor of The London Observer	Religion, as it is explained in the dictionary is accepting a supreme controller. Is it not? So do the people accept a supreme controller? Do they accept? There are so many system of religions, but do they actually know who is the supreme controller? That is my question.	/Articles/2000/08/00069.html	/images/Prabhupada/PrabhupadaAroti.jpg			width="202" height="282"	right	religion, Christianity, Hare Krishna,Bhaktivedanta Swami,Prabhupada, Bhagavad Gita	<p><b>Mukunda:</b> Srila Prabhupada, this is Mr. Cline Cross, who is the religious correspondent for <i>The Observer.</i> This is His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. And this is Tony McGraw, who is a photographer.<p>
<b>Jayatirtha:</b> <i>The Observer</i> is one of the most respected newspapers.<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> You can give chair.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> No, I'll sit on the floor. I'll sit this way.<p>
<b>Jayatirtha:</b> You sure you're comfortable this way? We can bring a chair.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> Yes, I can... No, a chair would give the wrong atmosphere.<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> So you are observing our movement?<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> Yes, really for the first time at close quarters.<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> First time? We are here for the last seven years.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> Yes, I know a little about you, but it's only in the last hour that I've really begun to learn.<p>
<b>Jayatirtha:</b> We showed him the movie,<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> Your paper is <i>Observer.</i> Why did you not observe for the last seven years? (laughter)<p>
<b>Mukunda:</b> We just showed him our film.<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> How did you like?<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> Oh, it was very interesting. Again it taught me a lot that I did not previously know.<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> We are trying to give real life. The present civilization is... (to someone else): Hare Krishna, but... How are you? (converses in Hindi) So you are religious observer. What is your idea of religion?<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> I would say much the same as yours, from what I've seen in your writings--that there's an underlying truth behind all religion. Would you agree with that?<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> Religion, as it is explained in the dictionary, "accepting a supreme controller." Is it not? So do the people accept a supreme controller? Do they accept? There are so many system of religions, but do they actually know who is the supreme controller? That is my question. What do you think? Just like, this is British government, and we know that the Queen is the supreme controller. Similarly, of all creation, cosmic manifestation, there is a supreme controller, and who is that supreme controller? Do they know it? That is my question.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> I mean, what is your attitude towards Christianity?<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> Don't come to Christianity. I'm talking on religion, the science of religion. The religion... When we speak of religion, there is no question of Christianity or Muslim or Hindu. Just like when they speak of gold, gold is gold everywhere. Gold cannot be Muslim gold or Hindu gold or Christian gold. We are concerned with gold, not the country where the gold is produced. That is not very important thing. Whether it is gold, that is our business.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> I mean, would you count Jesus Christ as gold?<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> Yes, why not? He's speaking about the supreme controller, God, so why should we not? Anyone who is speaking about God... (break) Religion without science or philosophy is sentiment. And philosophy without religion is mental speculation. So they must be combined together. So far the controller is concerned, this is scientific understanding. Just like the father... We consider... Why we? Everyone. Either he is Christian or Muhammadan or Hindu, the conception of God is generally accepted as the supreme father.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> I mean, it is a fact.<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> It is fact.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> Yes.<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> Because, just like anything, creation means the mother, the father and the children. That is our practical experience. Without mother, we are nowhere. We are given birth by the mother. So the material nature is the mother. From the material nature, material elements, everything is coming. From the water the fishes are coming, from the land the grass, the worms, and then human being, they are coming. From the air also living entities are coming. So therefore material nature is the mother, and we have come out of the material nature, therefore we are children. Then there must be father, because without father, simply mother cannot give birth. This is science. You cannot deny the existence of God simply by a false argument. This is real argument. The mother is there, material nature, and we are children there. There must be father.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> In England, the Christian Church in recent years or recent decades has been doing very badly and losing support. Your teaching could perhaps provide a substitute for the more traditional type of Christian teaching.<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> Yes, this is the science. Therefore I say religion without scientific idea, that is sentiment. It has no value. This is basic principle of religion that the mother is there, the children are there--there must be father. If you say "I do not see what is God," it doesn't matter. Sometimes the child after birth does not see his father. But that does not mean that he has no father, because without father there is no possibility of his existence.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> What impelled you personally, when you, at a fairly late stage in life, to come to the West to teach?<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> I must be prepared to teach. Teaching is not so easy thing. I was ordered to teach at the age of twenty-five years by my Guru Maharaja. But I was finding out the opportunity how to take up the work. So it took me so many years, so that at seventy years I came out for teaching.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> Why particularly in the West?<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> Because my Guru Maharaja ordered that "You go and teach this gospel in the Western world."<p>
<b>Jayatirtha:</b> His teacher instructed him to do this.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> Yes. And are you surprised at the great success you've had?<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> That is my Guru Maharaja's blessing. He ordered me, I tried my best, so there is little success. When I see so many boys and hundreds of centers, they are living very peacefully in a nice house, getting good <i>prasadam,</i> having good knowledge in the books, and reforming their character, and getting some good home, that is my success. Otherwise, they are loitering, no home, no character, no peace of mind. So at least this is my success. I have given so many boys a life. That is my success.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> Well, I'm very honored to have met you. I've read some of your work. I intend to read more.<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> Yes. So we are trying to give the best service to the humanity, human society, and this is the only service. People should come forward and cooperate with us. It is not a sectarian sentimental religious system. It is a scientific understanding of the value of life.<p>
<b>Cline Cross:</b> Well, thank you very much indeed, sir.<p>
<b>Prabhupada:</b> Thank you. Hare Krsna. <i>Jaya.</i> (end) [760723iv.lon]  July 23, 1976, London
<p>
His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada	Srila Prabhupada	2000-08-07	50	/RealAudio/76/76_067_A1.ram	|	R	D	guru	50	Knowledge is the solution--First Find A Bona Fide Guru (RealAudio from 1966)	For knowledge we have got to go to the right person, one who has actually seen or experienced the Absolute Truth. Unless we find such a person who has actually seen the Absolute Truth or who has in his experience what is Absolute Truth, there is very little chance of our spiritual advancement.	/Articles/2000/08/00068.html	/images/Prabhupada/PrabhupadaGivingClass1966.jpg			width="202" height="165"	right	finding a guru, acarya, spiritual master,Hare Krishna,Bhaktivedanta Swami,Prabhupada, Bhagavad Gita	[Bhagavad-gita 4.34-38 New York, August 17, 1966]<p>
<p align=center><i>tad viddhi pranipatena</i></br>
<i>pariprasnena sevaya</i><br>
<i>upadeksyanti te jnanam</i><br>
<i>jnaninas tattva-darsinah</i><br>
<p>
For knowledge we have got to go to the right person, <i>tattva-darsi. Tattva-darsi</i> means "one who has actually seen or experienced the Absolute Truth." So unless we find out such a person who has actually seen the Absolute Truth or who has in his experience what is Absolute Truth, so there is very little chance of our spiritual advancement.<p>
   If we can find out such a person who is experienced in the Absolute Truth, and if we follow the principles, as it is stated here, <i>pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya. Pranipata</i> means to surrender, and <i>pariprasna</i> means to inquire, and <i>sevaya</i> means service. Three things. You should find out a person who is self-realized, who has experience in the Absolute Truth, and, on your part, you have to surrender there, and you have to inquire, and you have to render service. When these things are completed, there is no doubt about one's spiritual salvation.<p>
   If we have actually found out a person who is self-realized and we have surrendered there honestly, with inquiry and service, then we must know that our spiritual salvation is guaranteed. Guaranteed. There is no doubt about it.<p>
   So Lord Krishna says,
<p>
<p align=center><i>yaj jnatva na punar moham</i></br>
<i>evam yasyasi pandava</i><br>
<i>yena bhutany asesani</i><br>
<i>draksyasy atmany atho mayi</i><br>
<p>
People are anxious to see God. Here Lord Sri Krsna says that as soon as one gets knowledge from the right person, then he never comes into the field of delusion. The whole thing is that in the present stage of our life, we are conditioned and deluded. We do not know things as they are. That is the cause of our all miseries.<p>
   Otherwise, constitutionally, we are <i>anandamayo 'bhyasat.</i> By nature, we are jolly. <i>Anandamayo 'bhyasat.</i> In the <i>Vedanta-sutra</i> you'll find. The nature of Brahman is <i>anandamaya. Sac-cid-ananda-vigraha. Isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah. Sat, cit, ananda. Sat</i> means eternity, <i>cit</i> means full knowledge, and <i>ananda </i>means pleasure. This is our constitution. We are all fragmental portion of Krsna, the Supreme Lord. Therefore, because He is <i>anandamaya, sac-cid-ananda-vigraha,</i> so we are also <i>anandamaya, sac-cid-ananda-vigraha.</i> Unfortunately, we have been put in the contact of this material energy. Therefore we are just experiencing the opposite. What is that opposite? That... <i>Sat, sac-cit ananda. Sat</i> means eternity. So we have got just the opposite, <i>asat. Asat</i> means non-eternity. This body will not exist. We are put into such a condition that however scientifically we may try to keep an youthfulness by so many medicines, injection, and so many things which we have, I mean to say, invented by our advancement material science, but death is sure. This body... <i>Antavanta ime dehah.</i> The body must be finished. Therefore there is no question of <i>sat.</i><p>
   And <i>cit. Cit</i> means knowledge. Knowledge, we have no knowledge. Our... We have got senses, but these are all imperfect senses. We are very much proud that everything we say... Somebody... If somebody preaches about the Lord, we challenge, "Can you show me the Lord? Have you seen the Lord?" or "Can you show me the Lord?" But we do not know that our senses are so imperfect that we cannot see even what we are daily seeing. We cannot... If the light is put off, then we cannot see each other, even in this room. So our seeing person is conditional. It is not perfect. Similarly, all our senses, they are imperfect. So by imperfect senses, by speculation of the imperfect mind, we, we cannot reach to the Absolute Truth. It is not possible. Not possible.<p>
   Therefore here it is stated in the <i>Bhagavad-gita</i> that <i>tad viddhi pranipatena:</i> "If you are at all serious to understand that transcendental knowledge, then you must approach to a person who has experience of the Absolute Truth." Otherwise, it is not possible. If you think that